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We lose Game time in Beta?

AtomX
This is Beta is it not? I have never played a game in my 15 year mmo history that uses your game time for a beta, not only that you are taking away our Destiny's Twin if we make a single change to who gets XP at any point during our gameplay? We paid for that perk. That's not right. You guys already pushed the launch of EE back by months and now you are taking away things we have paid for… You are starting to look like Trion with their launch of ArcheAge already. It's a slippery slope you walk when you start taking away things you promised to your players. And before you try and say that's not what was promised this is directly from your kickstarter page.

Adventurer Reward Bonus - Destiny's Twin:

As a special feature of Adventurer accounts, you'll be able to have two characters training skills at the same time! While one character is learning how to master the martial arts and gain renown as a warrior, your other character can be learning the intricacies of the crafting system and earning a name as an industrial powerhouse! As long as your primary character is earning skill points, so will its counterpart - FOREVER! The value of this benefit could easily reach hundreds of dollars if you became a long-term player of Pathfinder Online. (You will not be able to log in and play both of these characters at the same time)

Your team has clearly forgotten the "FOREVER!" section of your promise to your backers.

I am begging you not to charge for something people paid quite a bit of money to be part of already. This whole "Note: If you log into the game client during the first month of Early Enrollment, you will use a month of your game time." That is posted on the launcher is the wrong thing to do to your most loyal of customers that have already some of us invested well over $100 on this game and now you are going to punish us for playing it after waiting for months after what we were told we would have and say you will take away our bonuses we paid for… I'm sorry but if this isn't changed, you have already lost a member. All I'm asking is that you do what is right by your loyal paying customers and not become as corrupt and underhanded as Trion has. Following the path you are on will earn you a name that will put you out of business. Sadly it's not uncommon in your field.
Ryan Dancey
Early Enrollment is not a beta, and we should not have used that term in the Kickstarter. The subscription fees and game time being used support the operations of the game and ongoing development of it, just like every other MMO you play.

Nothing in that quote about Destiny's Twin has changed. You get two characters that train XP as long as you are paying for training on the account.
AtomX
Ryan Dancey
Early Enrollment is not a beta, and we should not have used that term in the Kickstarter. The subscription fees and game time being used support the operations of the game and ongoing development of it, just like every other MMO you play.

Nothing in that quote about Destiny's Twin has changed. You get two characters that train XP as long as you are paying for training on the account.

If your account has the Destiny's Twin perk you can set two characters to train XP at the same time. However, once you have configured the two characters training simultaneously you cannot change their XP training status without removing the Destiny's Twin perk. If you attempt to make changes to training, and you click the wrong buttons, you can end the Destiny's Twin perk. Proceed with caution.

This is from https://goblinworks.com/blog/managing-your-game-time-game-client-characters-and-packs/ where it says that if you make any changes to traning then you lose it. That's not Forever. And you still said it was beta to get pledge money it should be treated like that, not a whoops sorry to mislead you give us money plz.
AtomX
Heck even the tl;dr posted at the top of that blog says.

"tl;dr

If you cannot log in to goblinworks.com email customer.support@goblinworks.com
Only Alpha and Early Enrollees can play in Month 1 of Early Enrollment
Once you set two characters to train XP on an account with Destiny's Twin you can't make any XP changes without losing the Destiny's Twin perk
New Player Packs and Class Packs are available in Month 1 of Early Enrollment"

Apparently forever just stands till you make a single change to your account…
Azure_Zero
AtomX

Once you set two characters to train XP on an account with Destiny's Twin you can't make any XP changes without losing the Destiny's Twin perk

If this is a BETA, you should expect some bugs, they are working so this is not true.
Right now they are likely using a TEMPORARY system or ALPHA version of DT system currently for DT.
AtomX
But it's not a beta did you not read Ryan's post, This is a live launch they are taking our game time for it, even though they refer to it as a beta on the kickstarter page 11 times in the Reward levels pledge, they took our money told us it was going to be a beta, then said, nope our bad, were charging you game time now as well because we don't like the wording we used and it was misleading to the point that anyone that has ever played in a beta would think they don't lose game time for it you know, because it was called a beta.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
It's certainly a pickle. There have been a number of miscommunications along the way. You should probably not use any more play time, and request a refund, or sell your account to someone else.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Azure_Zero
true, GW does not want to call this a beta.
but we are in the development stage of the game (2 year out of the 5 year development).
So expect some bugs and systems being in their early stages, or not there until they are done.
AtomX
Azure_Zero
true, GW does not want to call this a beta.
but we are in the development stage of the game (2 year out of the 5 year development).
So expect some bugs and systems being in their early stages, or not there until they are done.
Yes, they are in the development stage, you are correct. But once again, as stated, this is not a beta.

Ryan Dancey
Early Enrollment is not a beta.

And even Ryan's own blog post states that we can't make any changes to our account without loosing our DT. Yet he still insists it works forever. The kickstarter that we gave them money for (And no small account mind you) is where we were told that we will be in on beta. And other than an initial fee (like a premium pre-order much like most MMOs or in this case our Kickstarter pledge) not one that I can ever recall reading about or playing in has ever charged a subscription fee. So you can see why I am upset by the fact that they are just charging away for something we already paid to be part of. Once the game is past the "Viable Product" (bad coding and not player friendly) stage, sure, I'm all for paying for it. But charging for a game where you feel punished for everything you try and do. No thanks.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
It's possible he means that if you do it will require a whole bunch of manual work on their part to fix it, which will predispose them to not like you and may impact your ability to have fun. I am operating under the notion that they will honour the terms of their Kickstarter, but that there is no point aggravating them by yelling in public about something that hasn't happened yet.

They have imposed a set of rules, under which, the DT will operate just fine. If you break those rules, deliberately, or by accident, you'll have a chance then to find out what their answer/fix is. Until that happens, there's no point getting excited about it.

Unless, that is, the real problem is that we don't like the rules. Sadly, I don't think there's anything in the kickstarter saying that there wouldn't be any unpleasant rules about how DT works. It's an extraordinarily valuable account function, even with a few inconveniently restrictive rules.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
 
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