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What is a healthy bandit / gatherer ratio and how to achive it

Thod-Theodum
There have been a few messages threads with emotions high. I thought I tackle the issue from a different point of view.

Non-consensual PvP is part of this game and won't go away. But it is up to us if non-consensual PvP turns into a deterrent of the game or into something that enriches it long term.

Right now there are multiple issue plaguing the whole game. After all - we are in the pioneer stages.

a) Gatherers and crafters are needed to build up the early economy. Without them we have no game. Even hard-core PvPers were forced to dig coal in the first week.

b) The main risk at the moment for a bandit is his OOC reputation. I can live with a 'coal tax' for the area South of Marchmont. But I did blame and shame Sensou when it was sold as the Sensou - Golgotha war (and got part of my coal back). But this is not a good way to deal with risk.

c) Server populations make it non-feasible to go out in large groups for protection to gather

d) Hunting down bandits right now is not making sense as there is nothing you can take from them

e) There is not much other PvP opportunity to keep bandits engaged

f) Being known either gives you immunity or paints a bullseye on your back. Thod hasn't been attacked a single time yet despite playing many, many hours. My 1000Xp alt managed to get attacked despite being hardly ever online.

g) We know Thornguards don't act yet as they should in settlement environments

h) Reputation also isn't working well right now as you can gain reputation back AFK. This and not the rate at which reputation comes back is an issue in my view

i) Killing 4 characters a day might not sound much - but that is 50-100% of some settlements logged in during that day

j) Victims are a resource. You have to take care not to strip mine them.

I don't have solutions for the problem. In the end it needs a balance between risk and reward to work for both sides. This is the reason I respect Bluddwolf a lot as he is well aware of these issues. I'm very happy to hear from some of the bandits.
This isn't an easy time for them either. They are also here to enjoy a sandbox game. But in the end it is important to achieve a healthy bandit / gatherer ratio. Some non PvP players need to toughen up a little bit. An occasional kill isn't the end of the game.
Bandits have to be aware that victims are a very scarce resource right now. You want to encourage more to come into the game. So don't drive them away at this critical time.

Oh - and Thod is long overdue of a bandit attack. So don't feel restricted that he is 'taboo' because of my presence here and as he will write as Theodum about your evil dastardly acts. Rather take him as one of my very new players who might take such behavious much more personal. Just don't dress it up as anything else but an honest act of a River Kingdom Bandit. Because in this case Theodum will come down with his pen on you.
Theodum will likely write about you anyway - but how your actions are described will depend on your actions as well.
Thod/Theodum are the OOC/IC leaders of the Emerald Lodge - a neutral settlement in the center of the mal that tries to the first to explore the Emerald Spire - should that part of the game ever become available. We have a strong in game and out of game relationship with the Pathfinder Society.
We welcome both hard core players as well as casual players with or without tabletop experience. We have a strong group in Europe and are slowly expanding into the US. We are predominately PvE as our neutral political stance means that we tend to use PvP only in self-defence. We are not anti-PVP - but expect limited PvP opportunity with us.
Azure_Zero
There are some simple changes that could be made to stop the PKing in town and keep the banditry down for now;
Guards attack you, if you GO or ARE RED in town.
Guard Attack you, if Rep below +2500 (5000 rep difference)
New Guy
Have people thought about moving their base of operations? Or consolidating?

I played for hours yesterday and was not attacked by a single player. It was my first day playing since mid Alpha. Well, I WAS technically attacked by a mage but she was trying to help me fight off 5 bandits and probably didn't realize her AoE had friendly fire.

Every 30 minutes or so I ran back to town and banked my stuff… just in case… but other than the one mage, everyone I encountered was doing their own gathering or hunting.
Doc
Thod hasn't been attacked a single time yet despite playing many, many hours. … Oh - and Thod is long overdue of a bandit attack.

I've been through Emerald Lodge quite often, and nobody is ever home when I pass through, otherwise you would have had your experience by now. And basically, areas with small populations aren't worth going to.



Server populations make it non-feasible to go out in large groups for protection to gather

Honestly, I've been a bit surprised at how little all of the supposed paladins protectors and people roleplaying as good guys are doing to play their part.

Despite all the name calling and rude comments, the people currently doing banditry style stuff has given all of these players desiring to be protectors something to actually do (if they decided to take up the job). Personally, I sort of expected some kind of response or at least people to work together. I guess I'm just taken aback by the seeming lack of interest in playing how they said they would.

At some point, shouldn't the leaders of these groups with 100+ people and more with their alliances added on, shouldn't they be interested in protecting their group? Do they not have a responsibility to do something, or can they just guilt trip a couple people into stopping so they don't have to be distracted? Should other smaller groups be forced to play nice and sit by idle while the super groups amass tons of resources and gain a potentially insurmountable resource and equipment advantage?

Beyond that, I suppose I just thought people would make it tougher. Not from a OOC reputation standpoint, but from a "how they play the game" standpoint.

Personally, speaking for myself, I'll probably just take a break until all of the lord protector fancy pants types decide to start playing the game and stop leaving their "civilians" out to dry, and/or Goblin Works gets around to providing adequate defenses for player towns.



The main risk at the moment for a bandit is his OOC reputation.

Well considering a good deal of the Alpha Aristrocracy still firmly believe they should have the right to (and can) blacklist anybody from having access to higher level skill training, I'd say that risking OOC reputation is the most risky thing you can do in game right now.
Thod-Theodum
@Doc
Thanks - this is very useful feedback.

Lets see what I can reply in regard to the Emerald Lodge:
a) empty - this is a timezone issue. I'm trying to get more activity during US times but we are not there yet
b) protectors - I'm aware of two dedicated fighters in the Lodge. These two fight escalations and farm recipes for the crafters. Protection for gatherers is something that currently makes no economic sense unless I risk losing my members because they quit
c) I currently strongarm people to be 'productive' which means have DTs with crafting, gather stuff, get recipes, etc. This will change and there will be a crossover point where I will encourage players to invest more XP into some basic weapon/armour skills. But at the moment 2 or 3 weeks of XP to learn more fighting skills is something most of these characters can't afford (yet)
d) There is currently not enough trade that works and resource distributions force you to go long distances to gather. Someone posted he gatheres 30 minutes and goes back. This only works if you don't have to walk 5 or 6 hexes first before you can get what you need. The closest coal field is now 6 hexes away. To avoid banditry rich areas you have to walk >10 hexes.
e) There are currently only 2 100+ groups. Golgotha is allied with Aragon - so I doubt they will send troops to fight banditry around Marchmont - unless it is Sensou. For Brighthaven I guess it is too much hassle, too far away. Give me 4 or 6 more weeks and EL should be able to have a small force for anti-banditry. But we are not there yet.
f) In the end it will always be the ratio bandits vs victims and I likely will never win this rase if bandits truly are trying hard enough to outpace us. The number of vistims always needs to be larger as the number of bandits. By which margin I don't know. But that is an issue why banditry can't be made too attractive or the game goes into a downward spiral and becomes what GW and likely most of us don't want - a murder-hobo game.
Thod/Theodum are the OOC/IC leaders of the Emerald Lodge - a neutral settlement in the center of the mal that tries to the first to explore the Emerald Spire - should that part of the game ever become available. We have a strong in game and out of game relationship with the Pathfinder Society.
We welcome both hard core players as well as casual players with or without tabletop experience. We have a strong group in Europe and are slowly expanding into the US. We are predominately PvE as our neutral political stance means that we tend to use PvP only in self-defence. We are not anti-PVP - but expect limited PvP opportunity with us.
Schedim
g) Or the bandits begins to prey on each other,,,
Schedim: Peddler and dealer in stuff easily transported, restless wandering the land of the River. Trying to find out how to reawaken the cult of Hanspur. To realise this ambition I created the company named Rats of Hanspur.
You can reach me on: pfo.schedim@gmail.com
Doc
There are currently only 2 100+ groups. Golgotha is allied with Aragon - so I doubt they will send troops to fight banditry around Marchmont - unless it is Sensou. For Brighthaven I guess it is too much hassle, too far away. Give me 4 or 6 more weeks and EL should be able to have a small force for anti-banditry. But we are not there yet.

If I'm willing to spend the hours needed to run to Brighthaven, and eventually back - I don't see why they can't muster up at least 5 out of 100+ people to do the same.

The fact of the matter is, banditry isn't just a solo PvP griefing thing that people so desperately want to pigeon-hole it into. It can actually be a very effective strategic tool to fight groups that are much bigger than you, or same size even.

If Everbloom Alliance were to ask me to stop raiding because it makes their gatherers sad, and they are unwilling to actively protect them, or proactively engage me on my home turf to keep me busy there, then I respectfully ask that they discourage their gatherers from collecting resources until such time that they change their defensive behavior.

I'm only half joking.
Gog
Point of clarification: Golgotha is not allied with Aragon. The Northern Coalition is merely a non-aggression pact among its members; there is no commitment of mutual defense or other entanglement.
^This is Dak (Charlie George). RIP <Guurzak>
Nihimon
Doc
If Everbloom Alliance were to ask me to stop raiding because it makes their gatherers sad…

Nihimon looks up from his studies.

No one from Everbloom Alliance has posted in this thread. To my knowledge, no one from Everbloom Alliance has come crying to you or anyone else about how sad it makes our gatherers when you kill them.

If you want to fight Everbloom Alliance folks, come on down, but don't expect us to waste our time running all over the map hoping we catch you - you're not that significant.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Doc
I was mainly using that as a hypothetical for rhetorical purposes.

But to be completely open. I've only been raiding EBA, primarily Keepers Pass - mainly because few people seem to be logging on elsewhere in the vicinity. I'm not aware of many other groups doing any raiding, so only assume (not out of ego) that some of the complaints surfaced just might have been relevant to my activities.

If you want to fight Everbloom Alliance folks, come on down, but don't expect us to waste our time running all over the map hoping we catch you - you're not that significant.

Sounds good then, I retract my previous statement about taking a break then. Game on! smile
 
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