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10 days

Chidar
These comments reflect my personal experience as a pvp'er, in an attempt to identify potential issues in 'play ability'.

1. After 10 days the game is boring me & frustrating me to the point of not wanting to play for the following reasons:
A) Waiting for exp. I do not have enough exp to level my fighter, as well as my smelter & weapon smith. I am part of a team and we allocated crafting jobs because we can not gear up any other way.
B) Our alternative is to be at mercy of the Auction house - pvp'ers loose more gear than anyone else owing to the higher risk of death and thus durability penalty takes us out. This is not viable.
B) No reason to kill mobs. I am not interested in crafting - its forced upon me, I have to gather my materials from harvesting (which i also don't want to do), so I don't kill mobs for crafting mats.
C) Don't feel any activity adds value to my character development once 'fighting' feats level is achieved by killing mobs. Killing more mobs does not add value - always waiting for exp. This is where experienced mmorpg players who can grind, will feel the boredom.
C) There are other reasons but all to do with EE so do not belong in this thread, as these may be sorted out prior to release.

Bottom line is I do not think a person could join this game for pvp, without having to do crafting, that causes conflict in the use of available exp, causing down time for person waiting for exp. Always waiting for exp which is major limitation, with no ability to influence your return rate. It is a game breaker for alot of people. Person looses interest. A solo player is another argument, it will affect them hard.

Solution add exp gains from killing mobs.

I am not interested in any RPG responses. I would like to ask the Dev's if they are considering this mmo 'play-ability' issue?
Azure_Zero
the Devs have stated numerious times "THERE WILL BE NO EXP FROM KILLING MOBS."

For your equipment issue, place an order at a crafting settlement for your equipment needs as their are a number of them who would be happy to do business.
Illililili
B1. This will be sorted partially with the next AH upgrade. Right now few people use the AH, which makes it less useful, this leads to a viscous spiral.

As for xp gain, this is a real-time xp gain game, which allows casual players to (kind of) keep up to hardcore players. Hardcore players are (kind of) expected to run settlements, and use whatever means they can to convince the casual players to join their settlement and contribute. Makes for an interesting political dynamic. So far I like it.

If all you desire is intense PvP fighting action you might need to take breaks, or play this in conjunction with TF2 or another game that fulfills that particular fix. In this game, if you PvP hard in an area, those players less inclined to PvP will simply react by moving their operations to another area, or taking whatever actions they can to frustrate you (which can be thought of as simply another type of PvP).
Gog
A) You have the same exp as everyone else. The fixed and constant progression of experience and the choices you make about how to spend the experience you have accumulated are a core feature of the game design. A very similar system has worked very well in EVE, and this is not going to change. Your choices are to make your peace with this system, or decide not to play.

B) The Auction House is a definite shortfall in the current state of the game. This problem can be bypassed by joining a larger group of players acting as a coordinated economic entity. If you don't want to do that, you're going to have to arrange for trade either via the forums, the IRC channel, or some other method. Or, you could postpone your participation in the game until the auction house economy is more viable.

Second B) killing mobs gives you salvage, recipes, and expendables which you can trade for the gear you don't want to craft, and it gives you achievements.

C) You can't get more exp by killing mobs, but exp is only a small part of character power. All the exp in the world will do nothing for you if you don't have achievements to unlock advanced training and equipment with keywords that training can unlock.

Second C) Yes, the game has a lot of development yet to come.

Bottom line: You can PVP without having to do crafting. You cannot PVP without being part of an economic community which does crafting. You cannot solo PFO; you are correct that you can't do everything yourself, but everything does have to get done. The solution to this problem is division of labor.

From what you've written, I speculate that one of your core gaming motivators/ reward mechanics is the Level Up. PFO is not the game which will push that button for you. You will never be able to go out and kill 100 of anything and get a Ding!, and if you can't be happy without that kind of a game mechanic then PFO is not the game for you. Mind you, PFO does have plenty of rewards for Bartle A type gamers; it's just that those rewards require more effort, focus, and planning to achieve than just logging into the game and mashing 1 until you hear Pavlov's bell.

There's a decent chance that I'll be the first player on the server to make a PVP kill with a T2 weapon. That accomplishment will require a combination of careful experience distribution, achievement farming, resource acquisition, economic coordination with other players, and combat skill. All those factors rolled together are how you develop your character in PFO.
^This is Dak (Charlie George). RIP <Guurzak>
Chidar
I would say 'and i will be the one to take that T2 weapon off you', but that's not in the mechanics either.
I don't see why both exp mechanics of 'earned for playing' & 'timed exp' can't be in the design.

I appreciate your explanations, I am aware of all of your points. However I still think the game 'play-ability' is reduced by this issue for an mmo player, perhaps not as much for a table-top dice roller, or a person with two characters on one account both gaining timed exp. It is my guess that is what some of you are and have not experienced the frustration of one character and limited exp.
Yes i am a hardcore pvp'er in mmorpg's and mmofps, I would find this product frustrating, along with the 10,000 others in the community. I get it that the design focus is not on this niche, but I think there is value in perhaps building stuff into the game for that market.

I am not here to cause trouble, just offering my opinion.
Chidar
Chidar
I would say 'and i will be the one to take that T2 weapon off you', but that's not in the mechanics either.
I don't see why both exp mechanics of 'earned for playing' & 'timed exp' can't be in the design. I would settle for earned exp for boss kills.

I appreciate your explanations, I am aware of all of your points. However I still think the game 'play-ability' is reduced by this issue for an mmo player, perhaps not as much for a table-top dice roller, or a person with two characters on one account both gaining timed exp. It is my guess that is what some of you are and have not experienced the frustration of one character and limited exp.
Yes i am a hardcore pvp'er in mmorpg's and mmofps, I would find this product frustrating, along with the 10,000 others in the community. I get it that the design focus is not on this niche, but I think there is value in perhaps building stuff into the game for that market.

The problem comes down to balance - we have dice rollers (table-top)on one side and keyboard mashers (mmo) on the other, a compromise is required.
I am not here to cause trouble, just offering my opinion.
Gog
The problem with building a game design oriented towards players who are motivated by Level Up is that those players are not loyal over the long term. They level up to the cap quickly, maybe do it a second time, and then move on to the next game. When you see a game with a massive number of accounts in its first month and empty servers six months later- as with SWTOR, ESO, and Wildstar- that's what happened.

Goblinworks made a deliberate decision not to cater to that market, in the hopes of building a longer-lasting playerbase from a population with different gaming motivations.

Also, don't assume that your personal gaming preferences are representative of "the MMO player". There are plenty of gamers here who have been online since UO or earlier. Certainly, there are a lot of gamers who want the same things you do, but as mentioned above those gamers are not PFO's target market because they do not stick to a single game for long periods.
^This is Dak (Charlie George). RIP <Guurzak>
Dazyk of Phaeros
Couldn't have said it any better than Guurzak.

+1
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

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Chidar
Guurzak
The problem with building a game design oriented towards players who are motivated by Level Up is that those players are not loyal over the long term. They level up to the cap quickly, maybe do it a second time, and then move on to the next game. When you see a game with a massive number of accounts in its first month and empty servers six months later- as with SWTOR, ESO, and Wildstar- that's what happened.

Goblinworks made a deliberate decision not to cater to that market, in the hopes of building a longer-lasting playerbase from a population with different gaming motivations.

Also, don't assume that your personal gaming preferences are representative of "the MMO player". There are plenty of gamers here who have been online since UO or earlier. Certainly, there are a lot of gamers who want the same things you do, but as mentioned above those gamers are not PFO's target market because they do not stick to a single game for long periods.

Huge assumption there mate.
I don't assume my personal gaming style is the same for everyone else, i never said it was. If you read the top you can see my 'personal' experience bit there, and it means mine not anyone else. But at the same time I can assure you it will be the same thoughts shared by others.
I have been playing mmo's since the internet as invented - beta for UO for starters.
I don't agree once your char is developed people leave from boredom, on the contrary i can name you plenty of games where people have stayed for 5 years fully developed. If the mechanics are in a game that entertain you - you will stay.
The idea of obtaining commercial income from preventing character development through time, to me shows a fear of not having a good enough (entertaining) game. That is all. But its negative affect is to create a time based boredom/frustration of not being able to develop your character, its a lose situation for a hardcore gamer and will lead to offline or worse. I have said before offline people do not contribute to the community, lose more.
Kitsune
Dazyk of Phaeros
Couldn't have said it any better than Guurzak.

+1

Agreed. Chalk up another +1 or +2.
 
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