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PvP After-Action Report

Nihimon
Had a big, fairly organized dust-up with Golgotha at one of their Towers this evening (thanks Gol for coming out!)

I know there have been a bunch of folks mentioning some of these things but just to add my 2 cents while it's fresh in my mind:

1. Flagging makes much more difference than it should. In general, the folks who flag are so much easier to kill that it really is the single-most important factor in combat. It really should be the case that everyone is flagged and tab-targetable, with everyone in your alliance being excluded.

2. Respawning is kinda broken. Right now, often Defenders and Attackers will both respawn at the same shrine. Even if that weren't the case, being able to run back in to the fight in less than 30 seconds really makes the whole thing a chaotic mess.

I know the devs have ideas about how to solve some of these things, and I'm not clamoring for fixes right now.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Tigari
With the respawing, isn't the end goal to be "Bound" to a point,and at that point is where you respawn? Once this system is in, it should fix that.

And yes, they need to find a way to fix targeting in this game FAST. It's the biggest problem us PvP'ers (the ones I've talked too) have in this game, and it's getting to be very annoying. With Targeting the way it is, and with the reduction of Rep gain (currently our "PvP currency"smile the game isn't going to keep the PvP'ers it wants much longer. All that will be left is the Griefers who don't care about rep anyways.

Sorry to derail a little. It was a fun night and we learned alot. Thanks again for doing this!
Chidar
I'm not a griefer, and i don't care about rep.
I am a PK'er tho and would like a fix for targeting.
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Tigari
With the respawing, isn't the end goal to be "Bound" to a point,and at that point is where you respawn? Once this system is in, it should fix that.

And yes, they need to find a way to fix targeting in this game FAST. It's the biggest problem us PvP'ers (the ones I've talked too) have in this game, and it's getting to be very annoying. With Targeting the way it is, and with the reduction of Rep gain (currently our "PvP currency"smile the game isn't going to keep the PvP'ers it wants much longer. All that will be left is the Griefers who don't care about rep anyways.

Sorry to derail a little. It was a fun night and we learned alot. Thanks again for doing this!

Yes, I have heard that the Rep regain has been reduced to 10 pts per hour and one kill amounts to a loss of 1200 Rep points. If Rep regen is going to be very slow, and rep loss is going to be very fast, you kill non consensual PVP. This will destroy the economy because harvesters will have the built in defense of the reputation system.

There needs to be more systems in place, I doubt any would argue about that, and the Rep system will have to be tweaked often.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Tuoweit
Bluddwolf
This will destroy the economy because harvesters will have the built in defense of the reputation system.

I'm pretty sure the rep-free tower PvP we engaged in last night consumed more in resources than any other PvP activity we've had to date.
Jakaal
Bluddwolf
If Rep regen is going to be very slow, and rep loss is going to be very fast, you kill non consensual PVP. This will destroy the economy because harvesters will have the built in defense of the reputation system.

Maybe that is the idea? Yes there is open PvP and you CAN go out and murder people and take their stuff. No one likes that other than the people doing the killing.

This game is new and most settlements are trying to build up their economies and the drain of warfare is one thing, having the suppliers of equipment stop crafting b/c they can't ply their trade with out loosing hours of work regularly? They will just stop. No one like wasted effort, and even worse, the people killing them are getting the fruits of their labor. That is a short ticket to player that just walks away from the game.
Azure_Zero
Jakaal
Bluddwolf
If Rep regen is going to be very slow, and rep loss is going to be very fast, you kill non consensual PVP. This will destroy the economy because harvesters will have the built in defense of the reputation system.

Maybe that is the idea? Yes there is open PvP and you CAN go out and murder people and take their stuff. No one likes that other than the people doing the killing.

This game is new and most settlements are trying to build up their economies and the drain of warfare is one thing, having the suppliers of equipment stop crafting b/c they can't ply their trade with out loosing hours of work regularly? They will just stop. No one like wasted effort, and even worse, the people killing them are getting the fruits of their labor. That is a short ticket to player that just walks away from the game.

Well Said, and to the point.
Doc
When I buy a chair from IKEA, a lot of time I just rush ahead and start putting it together without reading the instructions. Usually about half way through I've realized I put a piece on in a place it shouldn't be, and I have to take the whole thing apart again. It's pretty frustrating because it feels like wasted time.

- - -

When gatherers and crafters elect to not take any simple precautions to protect themselves from non-consenual PvP encounters (no speed spell, not paying attention, afk, being over-encumbered, being solo, not dumping in bank asap) then is it fair to point fingers at the bandits and hate them for the "wasted time"?

I'll just briefly point out that with low player populations you can spend several hours trying to find somebody to raid and get nothing, or even if you do, you can blow all of your rep allowance and still get nothing because some are smart enough to use the bank. All the while, every time you (a gatherer) right clicks a node you get resources. Every. Single. Time.

- - -

But ultimately though, a simple fact regarding the gatherer, bandit, settlement PVP issue is frequently ignored:

Every piece of iron that some gatherer picks up has a chance to be made into a weapon that can (and probably will) be used to attack me and my allies. If you truly want a war between settlements, then you have to accept that making weapons is suitable provocation to invite combat. I'm not sure why anybody really believes that somebody who makes weapons for attacking players is somehow less involved (and safe from) PvP than the people who wield them.

There was a lot of controversy with the Allied bombing campaign during WWII, but I don't think anybody argues as to why they chose to bomb the crap out of German tank and airplane factories.
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
@ Doc

You are trying to convince them that crafting and gathering are PVP, and they are likely not going to do that.

The only way to engage them in economic warfare though PVP is to attack them when they pass through open PVP hexes. A better way to wage economic warfare is to engage in market warfare. Gather materials in huge amounts and dump them in the markets at dirt cheap prices. The glut in crafted goods, with virtually no demand will get even the gatherer / crafters wishing there was more looting going on. It is an equal or greater waste of time to craft items no one is demanding to buy.

The economy in EVE works because, from the very beginning, there was full looting and item consumption (ammo) and loss (destruction). Goblin Works claims they want to have a Player Generated Economy, but they don't follow the one clearly, successful model that has worked in creating one.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Doc
When gatherers and crafters elect to not take any simple precautions to protect themselves from non-consenual PvP encounters (no speed spell, not paying attention, afk, being over-encumbered, being solo, not dumping in bank asap) then is it fair to point fingers at the bandits and hate them for the "wasted time"?
It might surprise you to learn that being told it's our own fault we died is not particularly useful in trying to convince us that you should have less penalty for killing us.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
 
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