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EE v4.0 TEST SERVER Release Notes

Sspitfire1
Ortallus
Sspitfire:

There's always going to be a 'best weapon' or 'best build' or 'meta thing' that people are going to gripe about. I have never seen, in any game, a balanced system, and I doubt that I ever will.

All seeking a 'balanced' system does is bring out the math nerds to prove that it can't be done.

So if you want to minmax, and play the 'best' do it. Me? I'm going to play what's fun, and if I die, I die.

Unlike so many, I'm not so insecure in life that I'm afraid to lose on a game. (I'm sure this will be considered trolling by Ryan, but at this point I'm not caring.. the complaints about how things won't work instead of constructive ways that things could work, and focusing on new ideas as Crowdforging instead of slamming down the hard work of the devs is getting beyond sickening)
Wow, Ortallus. That is not my concern in the least. My concern is that the proposed changes are going to take a relatively balanced system and turn it into a 2-build system of Axe-longbow users and Expendable-club/shortbow users. If you have been following along with my (rather long and admittedly obsessive posts), you may have noticed that I repeatedly highlight the issue with combat balance. Right now, even the "sub-optimal" builds are viable and fun in PvP. With the new system, sub-optimal builds will loose unequivocally, forcing everyone to focus on just the few optimal builds that interrupt Expendables efficiently or pop off Expendables efficiently. My understanding is that it has been Stephen's goal from the beginning to avoid that type of combat system as much as possible.

So if I am tearing anyone down, it is the folks who welcome the expendables changes (perhaps because they demanded them from the devs) without giving full thought to what they actually mean.

While I am at it, if you want to use your expendables, you will need to plan on going Feint-Club Conk or Feint-Distracting Shot so you can stack your target up with Oblivious to counter the slow they are raining down on you. That's your best bet to evening the odds of Mindblank/Freedom protecting you from future interrupts. That combo, however, means that you will be primarily dealing damage with your interrupts rather than your weapons OR have to pick a heavy hitter for your second weapon. And you still are not going to get your first 2 or 3 Expendable attacks off.
Sspitfire1
Alright, a recap, final analysis, and closing remarks.

Wow, Expendables are amazing! -> Everybody is going to use them -> Expendable Interrupt builds become common place -> Interrupt builds will demand Slow to counter the Freedom/Mindblank and Expendable Builds will demand Oblivious to counter the Slow

Within this cycle (and driving it) is another cycle: Crap, I got hit with a massive Debuff -> Time to Buff my way out of the Debuff OR Those Debuffs really hurt -> Super Saiyan Pre-Fight Buff Fests

What are the implications of this?

1) If you are going to try and be "creative" and operate outside this two-build system, you are going to end up getting owned by both builds. Both Builds will slam you with Expendable Bombs and pop their Expendable God-like Buffs with impunity as soon as they figure out you are not prepared to interrupt them.

2) If it doesn't decrease Reflex or Base Attack, it is useless. That means Burning Stacks and Bleed Stacks have just gone into the trash bin. To give an example, if you try to combo Stab-Skewer, as soon as your opponent sees the Distressed flag pop up, they are going to trigger their Expendable since they know an non-interrupt attack is coming next. 40 Stacks of Bleed and 40 Stacks of Afflicted will be gone in 2-3 rounds- a fair trade compared to what any Expendable will do. IF you are going to be smart and go to Penetrate instead of Skewer with your spear, you now have a 60% chance of interrupting your opponent's Expendable before it goes off (75% chance of NOT interrupting cubed = 42% chance of NOT interrupting). Not a smart trade off, considering how little damage Penetrate actually does and how massive the Debuff or Buff will be when it goes off.

3) Frightened, Drained, Afflicted, and Exhausted are all great in the current system. In the new system, they are dicey risks with minimal reward. Frightened and Drained do not actually affect Base Defenses currently (known bug), so they are nearly useless unless you can dole them out in massive doses (i.e. Bully, an Expendable). Most weapon attacks only apply them in small stacks due to how powerful they actually are (in the old combat system, anyways). Afflicted is so-so; but not many attacks put it out there in a meaningful size quickly enough to avoid leaving yourself vulnerable to an Expendable Bomb. Exhausted could actually be meaningful except for the same reason as Afflicted AND the fact that most Interrupt Builds use low-stamina attacks. So these are all "Use at your peril" stacks and not likely to be heavily utilized in the new combat system since their risk is not really worth the reward.

So in the current system, all of these things I have pointed out in all of my posts are simply not problems. The ONLY problem is that a handful of expendables are not potent enough and the others are fine where they are- folks just don't know how to use them properly. I mean, String Bolos and Blinding dust under the original system are amazing AND you can actually get them off in a meaningful amount of time.

By contrast, the new system will render all of the depth and breadth of the old system meaningless, leaving us in a two-build arms race that punishes the creative and rewards the dogmatic. All of those wonderful tools Stephen has laid in our hands for the old system (i.e. Burning, Bleed, Frightened, Drained, Exhausted, Penetrate, Precise, Improved Crit, etc.) will crumble to dust as they rust on the shelf because focusing a build around them will result in a swift and decisive death.

And Stephen already knew all of this. That's why, for so long, he has resisted doing exactly what everybody has been demanding that he do: "make expendables more powerful." For the next two weeks, though, we get to try it "our way" and find out how much more Stephen knows than the rest of us who think a ranged, spammable Slowed 45 for 10 power is not worth using.
Ortallus
Please delete this thread/comment.
My ban has now gone from 7 days to permanent with a chance to appeal after 6 months. Paizo has violated the ToS and EULA, which mention nothing about repercussions for actions on the forums resulting in loss of access to the game client. I have not done anything in violation of the rules which would warrant a ban from the game client.
Kadere
Expendables are going to be big and slow? Cool. My dagger says hi.
Brighthaven Leader
For those that don't realize this….

Fighters and Rogues don't have a Out of Battle cool down on their expendables, they can "spam" them. Clerics/Wizards on the other hand have a Out of Battle cool down.
Brighthaven is a Neutral Good settlement focused on defending its citizens and its allies from negative fringe based PvP (Player Killing and Griefing) while striving to become a large and shining beacon for Good. Whether you wish to benefit from this protection or you love PvP and wish to assist in providing this protection, Brighthaven aims to be the home and support center for you!
QMan
Cheatle for TEO
For those that don't realize this….

Fighters and Rogues don't have a Out of Battle cool down on their expendables, they can "spam" them. Clerics/Wizards on the other hand have a Out of Battle cool down.

Augment disagrees with you. smile
Ortallus
Please delete this thread/comment.
My ban has now gone from 7 days to permanent with a chance to appeal after 6 months. Paizo has violated the ToS and EULA, which mention nothing about repercussions for actions on the forums resulting in loss of access to the game client. I have not done anything in violation of the rules which would warrant a ban from the game client.
Edam
Ortallus
Cheatle for TEO
For those that don't realize this….

Fighters and Rogues don't have a Out of Battle cool down on their expendables, they can "spam" them. Clerics/Wizards on the other hand have a Out of Battle cool down.

Wait, do you mean in battle? Because I've not noticed an out of battle cooldown on my spells. Though I wasn't looking that closely.

But Sspitfire was talking about spamming some sort of combat spell, I thought?

Really though, it seems as though cleric/wizard expendables SHOULD have a cooldown, since they're meant to reflect spells. I don't necessarily think rogue/fighter expendables should have a cooldown, but nor do I think they should be as powerful, since those classes' power comes from their combat feats, or possibly in the case of rogues in their reactives.

Cheatle can correct me if I misunderstood but I took it to mean the cooldown for wizards/clerics does not start until you are out of battle limiting wizard/cleric expendables to once per battle.
Ortallus
Please delete this thread/comment.
My ban has now gone from 7 days to permanent with a chance to appeal after 6 months. Paizo has violated the ToS and EULA, which mention nothing about repercussions for actions on the forums resulting in loss of access to the game client. I have not done anything in violation of the rules which would warrant a ban from the game client.
Brighthaven Leader
Cleric/Wizard cool down is during combat, once combat is over they can use their spells again, meaning once per combat. Fighters/Rogues can spam theirs during combat, though Augment/Bolos lines are once per combat. After EE4 patch, Bolos will be spammable, Augment line will still be once/combat.
Brighthaven is a Neutral Good settlement focused on defending its citizens and its allies from negative fringe based PvP (Player Killing and Griefing) while striving to become a large and shining beacon for Good. Whether you wish to benefit from this protection or you love PvP and wish to assist in providing this protection, Brighthaven aims to be the home and support center for you!
 
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