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Divine attacks first notes

Gog
Keywords: There is one weapon keyword line per weapon type for agnostic attacks and a slightly different keyword line for deity-specific attacks. You will lose one minor keyword on your deity-specific attacks at all training and equipment levels above rank 1/T1.0, using agnostic divine weapons. When deity-specific divine weapons are introduced, using them will lose you one minor keyword on your agnostic divine attacks with that weapon. Note that a T1+3 weapon will enable all keywords available with a rank 3 deity-specific attack, providing a valid reason to craft T1+3 items for tier 1 consumers.

Keywords cont: divine weapons retain their slashing/piercing/bludgeoning keywords even though no divine attacks use them. Perhaps this is so that these weapons are still effective with classic (martial) attacks, although it seems odd that a Gorumite greatsword attack would tend to be less effective than a Martial greatsword attack when using an agnostic divine greatsword.

Achievement types: if I'm wielding a sanctified mace but slot a mundane mace attack and kill something with that attack, will that count towards my martial or divine achievements?

Range: there are two 20m attacks, for the Desnan star knife and the Asmodean light mace, which may be the only ammo-free ranged attacks in the game aside from the bugged axe-hurling attack. Desnans with throwing knives might be an interesting way to field ranged troops with no logistical cost; Star Slinger compares reasonably well to shortbow primary attacks especially when you consider that it neither roots the cleric nor provokes opportunity. Archfiend's Acolyte is much more situational, a secondary attack with a short knockdown on Dazed targets but poor DF/second and Stam/DF values: not something to build a doctrine around but perhaps useful on occasion especially grouped with other dazers.

Incomplete hotbars: Desna, Norgorber, and Gozreh worshippers cannot field a full set of 3 primary and 3 secondary divine attacks. Gozreh in particular is hurting with only one secondary.

Shields: the redheaded stepchild of the melee design is completely absent from the melee cleric's repertoire. Sanctified shields are in the recipe list but no divine shield attacks exist.

Other notes:
* Strike of Sacred Strength has the highest DF/Sec of any 1H attack, martial or divine, and is better than many 2H attacks.

* The First's Follower has atrocious DF/Sec and Sta/DF with no effect other than Frightened 5. Compare to False Edge which spams Oblivious 5 plus 25% to Distress with double the DPS and double the stamina efficiency.

* Windblade says Quickened 50% (2 Rounds, 50% chance) to Self. Ordinarily "quickened" has no numeric rating; it's a 10% speed bonus plus some combat bonuses. Does this attack grant +50% speed or is that 50% a redundant mention of the 50% chance to activate?

* Many of these attacks have Dispelling effects or Disrupted conditionals. When art has time to work on this, it would be great if we could get a visible indicator like a particle effect on the target character (not just a hotkey lightup) when we successfully dispel an effect and apply disrupted.

* Attacks with "attacker has favored" or "attacker has quickened" should probably be balanced on the assumption that those buffs will almost always be in place.
^This is Dak (Charlie George). RIP <Guurzak>
Stephen Cheney
Guurzak
Keywords: There is one weapon keyword line per weapon type for agnostic attacks and a slightly different keyword line for deity-specific attacks. You will lose one minor keyword on your deity-specific attacks at all training and equipment levels above rank 1/T1.0, using agnostic divine weapons. When deity-specific divine weapons are introduced, using them will lose you one minor keyword on your agnostic divine attacks with that weapon. Note that a T1+3 weapon will enable all keywords available with a rank 3 deity-specific attack, providing a valid reason to craft T1+3 items for tier 1 consumers.
The Level 5 keyword for deity-specific attacks is actually waiting on the enchanting system. You'll be able to put a Fire enchant on a sanctified Scimitar and be able to fully utilize both the Sarenrae-specific attacks and the more general One-Handed Sword attacks with the same weapon. (At least that's how it's supposed to work, I don't think I set it up in a way that precludes this, but if so, it's a mistake smile .)

Keywords cont: divine weapons retain their slashing/piercing/bludgeoning keywords even though no divine attacks use them. Perhaps this is so that these weapons are still effective with classic (martial) attacks, although it seems odd that a Gorumite greatsword attack would tend to be less effective than a Martial greatsword attack when using an agnostic divine greatsword.
See above. Up to rank 6, you should be able to freely mix Gorum greatsword attacks, the more generic divine Two-Handed Sword attacks, and the General Two-Handed Sword attack. At rank 6, you'll only get the T3 keyword for your divine attacks, not your General attacks.

Achievement types: if I'm wielding a sanctified mace but slot a mundane mace attack and kill something with that attack, will that count towards my martial or divine achievements?
I think they'll all count towards Martial or Subterfuge for now (whatever the non-Sanctified version would count toward), until we can get the tech in to differentiate more precisely. I'd need to check with Lee to be sure.

Incomplete hotbars: Desna, Norgorber, and Gozreh worshippers cannot field a full set of 3 primary and 3 secondary divine attacks. Gozreh in particular is hurting with only one secondary.
There are a few that are waiting on a couple of effects to become active, and they're not yet listed or trainable. They're set up in such a way that there are always four more generic ones (two primary, two secondary) and then the deity-specific ones get one primary, one secondary, and one either or depending on what made sense for the deity. So every deity will have at seven once those are working (and likely more added over time, just like with the general attacks).

* The First's Follower has atrocious DF/Sec and Sta/DF with no effect other than Frightened 5. Compare to False Edge which spams Oblivious 5 plus 25% to Distress with double the DPS and double the stamina efficiency.
Frightened debuffs the target's base defense AND attack so it's priced significantly higher than Oblivious, which debuffs just base attack (and perception). Against targets that are not easy enough to hit that you're using full damage, stacking the target up with Frightened should greatly increase your DPS.

* Windblade says Quickened 50% (2 Rounds, 50% chance) to Self. Ordinarily "quickened" has no numeric rating; it's a 10% speed bonus plus some combat bonuses. Does this attack grant +50% speed or is that 50% a redundant mention of the 50% chance to activate?
Huh. That's a typo. I'm surprised the parser didn't yell at me for that. It should just be Quickened (2 Rounds, 50% chance) to Self and I clearly didn't set it up right in my effects sheet. Good catch. Dunno if the fix will make it in, so I'm curious what will actually happen with that attack when used.
Ortallus
All I can say is, I can't wait for a trident with some lightning damage for my cleric of Gozreh. This is very exciting for me xD
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Gog
The Level 5 keyword for deity-specific attacks is actually waiting on the enchanting system. You'll be able to put a Fire enchant on a sanctified Scimitar and be able to fully utilize both the Sarenrae-specific attacks and the more general One-Handed Sword attacks with the same weapon. (At least that's how it's supposed to work, I don't think I set it up in a way that precludes this, but if so, it's a mistake smile .)

It's not just the difference of the level 5 keyword, though. All the deity attacks skip the +1 weapon keyword and jump straight to the +2, so at any given training level it takes an extra weapon plus to fully activate the attack.

With a rank 2 mundane or agnostic attack, you can fully activate your keywords with a +1 weapon. With a rank 2 deity attack, you need a +2 weapon to fully activate. Likewise with a rank 3 attack: a mundane or agnostic attack needs a +2 weapon for full effect, a deity attack needs a +3.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that design if that's what you meant to do; if that's the case, I just want to make sure that everyone's aware that deity attacks follow a different progression model from everything else.
^This is Dak (Charlie George). RIP <Guurzak>
Stephen Cheney
Guurzak
There's nothing inherently wrong with that design if that's what you meant to do; if that's the case, I just want to make sure that everyone's aware that deity attacks follow a different progression model from everything else.
Yep. This is the first set of attacks that make it very important to have a full grasp of the keyword system. It's relatively easy to compare the rank of General attacks to the + value of a weapon, so they're an entry point. Over time, the plan is to release more "advanced" feats that interact with keywords in an unusual way, such that understanding the system and which feats and gear can work together provides an advantage.
Ortallus
If this system does what I think it will, and does away with 'cookie cutter' builds, I will love it. =)
My ban has now gone from 7 days to permanent with a chance to appeal after 6 months. Paizo has violated the ToS and EULA, which mention nothing about repercussions for actions on the forums resulting in loss of access to the game client. I have not done anything in violation of the rules which would warrant a ban from the game client.
Quijenoth Starkiller
I'll post it here instead of the now lengthy EE4 test server preview post (and the fact it has become more concentrated on the WoT element).

I assume the updates on the Test server are not finite. I recall reading crossbows being considered but are waiting for the mechanics before release, but will we see bows for Erastil?

Also, just fishing for some feedback, how are unarmed attacks, monk weapons and quarterstaff's going to be handled in PFO?
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Gog
Erastil is not in the first round slate of deities. We'll see Erastil content closer to OE, or possibly not until after OE.

Monks are not slated for implementation until after rangers, paladins, sorcerers, and barbarians. Part of that is the desire to get unarmed combat "right" in terms of both combat mechanics and art.
^This is Dak (Charlie George). RIP <Guurzak>
markelphoenix
Let me get this straight. If I have a T1 +4 weapon, I will get the same keyword mundane credit as a T1 +3. The T1 +4 would get the same +3 ( +0 through +3 mundane keywords) +1 keyword from the Divine Keyword? So, if someone trains to rank 5, would they be able to take advantage of T2 +4 and have one major keyword with 5 minor keywords ( +0 through +3 mundane +1 cleric)?
Gog
If we're talking about +3 weapons then I'll assume that you have a rank 5 attack trained. Rank 5 trained attacks allow use of 4 minor keywords and the T2 major keyword.

If you have a rank 5 mundane attack and a T1+3 weapon, you'll activate all 4 minor keywords on your attack. You'll have a base damage of 60 with that attack, before DF and modifiers.

With a rank 5 agnostic divine attack and a T1+3 weapon, you'll get the same 4 keywords and 60 base damage.

With a rank 5 deity-specific divine attack and a T1+3 weapon, you'll only get 3 activated keywords and 55 base damage.

In order to get 60 base damage with a T1 weapon and a deity-specific attack, you would need a custom spellcrafted T1+4 weapon which the crafter imbued with the keyword needed for your particular deity's attacks. The deity attacks are missing the +1 keyword that the mundane and agnostic attacks share, so that spellcrafted keyword only brings you back to parity rather than putting you ahead.
^This is Dak (Charlie George). RIP <Guurzak>
 
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