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The Wizard/Armor Problem

Gog
martryn
My complaint, and the problem that needs to be fixed, is introducing some sort of means to keep mobs off of the wizard and the ranged characters.

AI should not train players in ways which are counterproductive in PVP. If your wizard learns to feel safe behind a tank, that should be because the tank has some way to effectively keep mobs and enemy characters off of him.

Until and unless there are tools which allow tanks to effectively protect wizards from enemy players, your wizard should be learning to hike up his robes and run rather than arguing for counterproductive AI.
^This is Dak (Charlie George). RIP <Guurzak>
Ortallus
Please delete this thread/comment.
My ban has now gone from 7 days to permanent with a chance to appeal after 6 months. Paizo has violated the ToS and EULA, which mention nothing about repercussions for actions on the forums resulting in loss of access to the game client. I have not done anything in violation of the rules which would warrant a ban from the game client.
martryn
AI should not train players in ways which are counterproductive in PVP. If your wizard learns to feel safe behind a tank, that should be because the tank has some way to effectively keep mobs and enemy characters off of him.

Until and unless there are tools which allow tanks to effectively protect wizards from enemy players, your wizard should be learning to hike up his robes and run rather than arguing for counterproductive AI.

Well, you've got the same problem, then, huh, except replace mobs with characters. If playing a wizard is going to degrade into casting a single spell and then running away from attackers because he can't take more than a few hits…

I don't know much about PVP. My corner of the map hasn't really experienced any.
Deianira Sunstorm
martryn
Anything, really, that might make the mobs more reluctant to just rush past the guys with the big weapons to attack the dude in the back. If a wizard can't stand and cast spells, and is forced to run around kiting mobs, the guy playing the wizard isn't going to be having much fun. Same with the guy with the bow. If he can't stand and shoot, and instead needs to kite mobs every. single. combat. then the game has created scenarios that will be troublesome, not in the spirit of tabletop Pathfinder, and not likely a lot of fun for "dedicated" casters and archers.

As a would-bard playing a wizard for now, I call this the "flailing Kermit arms of panic" response in honor of my favorite Muppet. I'm very, very good at it. Sadly.
Contact me on Paizo: Deianira
Tuoweit
martryn
Same with the guy with the bow. If he can't stand and shoot, and instead needs to kite mobs every. single. combat. then the game has created scenarios that will be troublesome, not in the spirit of tabletop Pathfinder, and not likely a lot of fun for "dedicated" casters and archers.

As a "dedicated" archer, I find the need to move around and maneuver away from melee mobs is a lot more interesting than just standing there and pressing 1, 2, or 3. I will confess to not playing tabletop Pathfinder, though.
martryn
I'm not trying to imply that in a hectic melee wizards and archers should be ignored. What we need is an AI that attacks targets of opportunity. If the fighter/melee types are closer, and you have to go around them to get at the archer/wizard, then perhaps they should be engaged first. If a mob has a clear path to an archer/wizard, that mob should certainly engage.

In PVP I guess the issue could largely be resolved with better body blocking. Characters take up space, and take up even more space, more than their sprites would otherwise indicate, when "engaged" in combat (i.e. weapons out, etc). This allows for better tactical positioning of characters to protect targets and restrict access, and makes larger scale combats more tactical as well because there is a real benefit to taking an enemy's flank.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
martryn
I'm not trying to imply that in a hectic melee wizards and archers should be ignored. What we need is an AI that attacks targets of opportunity. If the fighter/melee types are closer, and you have to go around them to get at the archer/wizard, then perhaps they should be engaged first. If a mob has a clear path to an archer/wizard, that mob should certainly engage.
Is that how you attack the mobs? Because it certainly isn't how I do it. If there's a shaman among the goblins, I always target them first. And an archer at range always gets preference over a local sword attacker, because they are going to start interrupting. Random isn't ideal, but it's a lot better than preferentially targeting the closest target.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Dazyk of Phaeros
I agree with Cal. Players in PvP won't often give you the luxury of choosing the tanky, front row target, so why should the AI?

I DO want to see some more blockers and ways for the fighters to stop the enemy from getting to my pet squishies, but I also think once Stuns, immobilise, and the like work on AI these issues will be fewer.
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martryn
Is that how you attack the mobs?

Flawed argument. Mobs don't attack. If my guild were hanging out in a clearing somewhere and a group of mobs attacked us and went for the wizard first, I wouldn't be complaining. My complaint is that the mobs sometimes LITERALLY run through the guy with the plate mail and big sword to attack the wizard.

I agree with Cal. Players in PvP won't often give you the luxury of choosing the tanky, front row target

And, in PVP, if players can AGAIN run completely through and past the guy with the big sword, absolutely ignoring him to get to juicier targets that can't be protected, there is an issue. I don't have a problem with people targeting archers and mages. I have a problem with the fact we can't do anything to guard them effectively.
Ortallus
Please delete this thread/comment.
My ban has now gone from 7 days to permanent with a chance to appeal after 6 months. Paizo has violated the ToS and EULA, which mention nothing about repercussions for actions on the forums resulting in loss of access to the game client. I have not done anything in violation of the rules which would warrant a ban from the game client.
 
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