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Unbreakable vs Dragoon

HowardWdW
Does it seem to anybody else that there is not a sufficient bonus to Unbreakable? One to resist all seems very weak vs +5 to crit, light and heavy melee and with only 2 hit points per keyword difference? In addition Dragoon scales up on those bonuses each level you train vs. Unbreakable remains at 1 resistance until T2. If unbreakable is supposed to be the tanking armor it should offer much higher hit points and damage resist it would seem.
markelphoenix
Disagree. Resistance gets taken from the damage calculation right off the top. You could crit and bypass their defense by a significant margin, but if their resistance > yourBaseDamage, 0 dmg. It is balanced and fine as is, especially given the already high resistance on the heavy armor.
Tuoweit
Each point of flat damage reduction is more valuable the more of it you have. Getting +3 resists may not seem like much versus, say, attacks doing 60 damage (5%), but the relative reduction is a lot greater when you stack it with heavy armor and you're going from 32 to 35 resistance: Reducing 28 damage to 25 is a ~10% reduction.
HowardWdW
I would appreciate a more detailed explanation of the damage calculation. My original question was about comparing Unbreakable to Dragoon. Not heavy armor to non heavy armor. There are two parts to the benefits of the 2 feats, the slotted effect and the keyword matching effects.

Slotted: I can't tell if the +1/+2/+3 damage reduction per Tier is that beneficial vs. the fairly large increase in critical hit, and melee attack. A better understanding of the damage calculation would probably resolve that issue.

Keywords: The difference is a very minor +2 hit point bonus per matched keywords and a small power point differential (pp don't seem that important to fighters at least right now). It would seem the hit point differential ought to be larger on tanking armor vs. dps armor (e.g. 10).
Khoal
When you say "the relative reduction is a lot greater when you stack it with heavy armor" what do you mean? I did not think that elemental damage took into account physical resistance and vice versa. Aren't they totally separate? I.e. Heavy armor doesn't help you against a fireball.

I am not understanding where a flat +1 to all resists (other than physical… Because dragoon and unbreakable at the same level each yield exact same physical resists) throughout all of T1 (changes to +3 at T2) equals a roughly 30% increase to attack and crit. There is very little to recommend unbreakable over dragoon ATM in my opinion.

I'd like to use in breakable for my tank. Convince me it is the best choice! smile

Erik
Khoal
Double post
Edam
What he is saying is that resistance comes off the base damage before multipliers in the attack equation. If yu are wearing heavy armor that figure is already quite low for Physical.

Lets take an extreme example and look at T1+0 attacks:

- a T1+0 weapon has base damage of 45.
- lets assume your heavy armor gives you 30 physical resistance, this base damage is reduced to 15
- now add +3 resistance, the base damage now comes down to 12
- the effective reduction in damage in this case is 20%
Decius
The damage calculation (from memory, so I might omit something):

Base damage is 40, plus 5 for each keyword matched between the weapon and attack. That means that it starts at 45 now, because every attack matches the basic keyword of the weapon.

Each attack specifies a 'damage factor'; the higher this number, the more damage.

Resistance is based on armor weight class and number of matched keywords with the armor feat, plus various boni.

Margin of success is determined by the attacker's weapon roll (a Thing To Discuss on its own), plus their attack bonus, compared to the defender's defense. If the attack roll is higher than the defense, there is a chance to crit based on the margin of success; if it is lower, then damage is reduced according to the margin of failure.

Hit point loss is equal to (Base Damage - Resistance) * Damage Factor * (1-.0625*sqrt(Margin of failure)).

That's the amount by which damage exceeded resistance, multiplied by damage factor, reduced by 6.25% times the square root of the margin of failure.
HowardWdW
Here is a comparison of a fighter trained to rank 4 in both Unbreakable and Dragoon wearing respectively pot steel plate +2 and hide and steel +2 with identical feats trained and slotted:

Unbreakable: Hit points 850, physical resistance 32, other resists 1 each, Hvy Melee AB 34, Crit +0, Saves Will 54/Reflex 37/ Fort 86

Dragoon: Hit Points 844, physical resistance 31, other resists 0, Hvy Melee AB 44, Crit +10, Saves Will 54/Reflex 37/ Fort 86

So as far as I can see, even with above explanations, there is not sufficient difference between these two armor types for a fighter to choose Unbreakable for tanking over Dragoon. I submit that Unbreakable needs a boost in both resistance when slotted and hit points gained per keyword.
Baron
HowardWdW
Here is a comparison of a fighter trained to rank 4 in both Unbreakable and Dragoon wearing respectively pot steel plate +2 and hide and steel +2 with identical feats trained and slotted:

Unbreakable: Hit points 850, physical resistance 32, other resists 1 each, Hvy Melee AB 34, Crit +0, Saves Will 54/Reflex 37/ Fort 86

Dragoon: Hit Points 844, physical resistance 31, other resists 0, Hvy Melee AB 44, Crit +10, Saves Will 54/Reflex 37/ Fort 86

So as far as I can see, even with above explanations, there is not sufficient difference between these two armor types for a fighter to choose Unbreakable for tanking over Dragoon. I submit that Unbreakable needs a boost in both resistance when slotted and hit points gained per keyword.

Earlier you mentioned that dragoon gains crit +5 EACH rank, while Unbreakable stays at a flat elemental resistance until Tier 2. Now is this suppose to be like this? or is it a bug? Because it´s ONLY the resistance that stays at a flat 1 until T2. Ivé always felt a bit iffy with that, because i feel that it should´ve increased with each rank, since hitpoints did that.
Self-styled Warden of the East, Protector of Baron´s Folly, Hero of the first skirmish.
 
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