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Player Suspensions and Bans

Smitty
Follow up because it also needs to be said.. I am always behind a level playing field for all groups… Having an council is fine, but like I said above the longer this takes the further we get from that field..
From what I understand about this scenario , perhaps at one time one of these players that was banned may have been involved in said council meeting as that player had many accounts and also controlled at least one settlement..

If some group was waiting in the winds so to speak, and was interested in coming into the game, or an established group wanted to relocate.. the sudden departure of holdings and outpost surrounding some of the places in question may prove to be tempting targets..

Letting some folks know about that departure and then waiting for an extended period of time before publically announcing what happened lets people that already have the information prepare and sort things out before it is public knowledge..

That screams favoritism to an outsider observer, and that is something GW needs to avoid..
Caldeathe Baequiannia
While I think Midnight is attributing way more to the "council" than it deserves*, I've been saying since alpha that players need to have a sense of agency. Many of the settlements positioned themselves as something much more egalitarian than what we have. Previous to alpha, we were promised settlement charters, that needed to be signed onto by at least ten people (which might prove problematic for all but a tiny fraction of the existing groups) that would specify how control of the settlement, and more importantly changes in that control, is handled.

To my mind that is an important piece of the social functions puzzle. New players (and old) need to feel like they aren't going to lose access to their company vault just because they pissed-off the wrong person.

I also have some concerns with the council. I understand that Lisa wants a compact forum where committed individuals can have discussions without too many hackles getting raised and things getting argued into obscurity, but I don't like it that it isn't recorded, and the notes published freely. There are also ways to keep it small without using only people attached to settlements. If nothing else, having anyone interested that isn't already a settlement "owner" throw their names in a hat for a few random people to be invited to each session would be fairly easy.

I'm generally fine with the Outlaw council, as long as it remains a way to disseminate info and get focused feedback, but if it's going to be looked at as being in any way representative of the player community, it's probably a failure.

* I couldn't even get a volunteer from the HRC to sit in for me when I couldn't attend the most recent one.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Huran
Not sure about other settlements but Keeper's Pass leadership transcribes minutes of all outlaw council meetings and posts them on our forums for our officers to read through and ask questions and distribute to the rest of the membership. We also have lengthy discussions before each meeting so that every member of the settlement can contribute to the meeting if they wish to. We may take a long time to make decisions but we are confident every settlement member has had an opportunity to give their thoughts and ideas to each decision we make.

I have never been to an outlaw council meeting, but I know they are intended to be ways to ask leadership how their members are doing. The unfortunate part is I have noticed there are times where the meetings are called last minute like this last one and leaders may not be able to make the date and time. My complaint would be, it would be nice to have more of a heads up or a regular meeting schedule so that leaders and their delegates can have arrangements made for everyone to participate.

It is also unfortunate that some settlement leaders choose not to participate at all and/or don't communicate with their members. It seems like there are a lot of assumptions about the meetings that are not quite correct. In the case of this last meeting, it was to inform leaders of a ban that happened before making the news wide spread. I would guess it was to lessen the shock. I also suspect they intended to have an email to the rest of the populace out by now but other circumstances have prevented that from happening.

I agree though, having a hat draw from members would be a nice way to defuse false assumptions from the non-informed and to make things seem a bit more fair (maybe to get a representation of non-settlement players). A recording would also be nice though I think previous recordings have always been done by members rather than GW so that may have something to do with why they are not recorded.
"Circles of power, gathered by EARTH, welcomed by GOLD, in strife and in mirth. Focused by CRYSTAL, guided by LIGHT, showing the way, by day and by night. wrought in IRON, strengthened by STEEL, together we stand, in wrack and in weal. Hidden in SHADOW, explored by WOOD, we circle together, for the greater good." –Maxikyd– http://www.kotcguild.com/
Smitty
I don’t want to be involved in a council… I don’t think my life needs anymore meetings, . so I don’t feel slighted in not being there nor invited .
My issue is that if GW is passing along information to specific groups of folks and from what I gather that was the only reason for the meetings.

The council thing is for taking temperatures as you guys say, getting input on things , seeing how things are going.. How the game feels at this time.. This instance has nothing to do with temperature, or opinions.. Was I shocked about what I have heard ?sure, but what can you say people do odd things on the internet..

This entire topic didn’t need to be addressed to a specific small group like this , and now 5-7 days still later no word to the general population. That is the problem I have with all this, don’t use the council as a way to pass along information , gather it all you want in these meetings but as to passing along information that could affect the rest of the community, do that through the normal blogs/ emails etc ..
Caldeathe Baequiannia
At the first meeting, we were asked not to record. I don't recall if it was a dev or player request.

It's important to remember that, in theory, more than half of the accounts are not in settlements, so regardless of how good any number of settlements are at disseminating info, it is probably not reaching them. And at best, it is reaching all but a tiny handful of us through filters.

Edit: Two players, from two different groups, were banned. I suspect that those of us who heard about it through one of those two groups, did not get the same description that was provided by the other, nor by any attendee who was not connected with either group. Which is to say, we can probably all agree that one of the two players was clearly in the wrong, while I suspect our opinion of the other may be coloured by who described the details. If recording was available, we could all make up our minds free of those filters.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Vadaryl
First off I think the community of players we have is actually amazing when we work collectively together. A recent example I observed is how we quickly relegated a player that created a potentially offensive named character and then began chatting in general chat. This player was then relegated to obscurity by positive and relevant discussions by different players that may probably do not agree on many things handling the situation.

I am thankful for Midnight insights as they help ground me from idealistic fantasies. One possible concern is given no announcement how some players and groups may be using this knowledge in a way that construes and advantage. This leads to seeing the situation and figuring out ways to communicate. Until last week I did not know that Outlaw Councils were still happening and look forward to addressing representation for those of my community.

The past is behind us, its for us to make the situation better and provide actual results while we dwell in limbo.
Decius
The highlights: a server-side fix was implemented that closed more than zero ways by which items were being duplicated.

Logs were reviewed and two players were banned as a result. One of those players is, as of the latest informs I have, still appealing the ban.

The logs indicate that only a small amount of effect on the game economy happened; the duplicated items were not widely disseminated and it is believed that nobody had conclusive evidence that anything untoward had been happening (several people had come forward with circumstantial evidence that made them suspicious, but there was no reports of anything that was outright impossible).

Details about the duplication methods were not and will not be disseminated, for obvious reasons.
Vadaryl
Thank you Delius, that is sufficient detailed information at this time for me. My information was being relayed from one person relaying what they heard to another. I wished we had not seen the post that restarted this thread until actual context which I have faith is forthcoming as demonstrated by your post.
You are a Troll
And what about *Settlement Leaders* who hardly play the game any more? Was someone else appointed to attend? Did anyone even ask? What about a leader who appears from obscurity to attend and then disappears again? Aren't the members of that settlement being *held hostage* by the absentee leader? What value does an opinion have of someone who doesn't even play the game? As I understand it, there is basically zero chance/methods of deposing someone who has their e-mail address and account attached to a Settlement as *leader* - I consider this a huge problem that needs to be addressed. It seems to me Settlement Leaders wield way too much power, especially when things were supposedly designed around Companies and not Settlements.
You are a Troll
Decius
Logs were reviewed and two players were banned as a result. One of those players is, as of the latest informs I have, still appealing the ban.

The logs indicate that only a small amount of effect on the game economy happened; the duplicated items were not widely disseminated and it is believed that nobody had conclusive evidence that anything untoward had been happening (several people had come forward with circumstantial evidence that made them suspicious, but there was no reports of anything that was outright impossible).

I thought GW had no ability to track items in game with *logs etc* - has this now changed, and if so, since when? Was this also part of the Outlaw Council discussion?
 
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