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Poll Rangers!

Fanndis Goldbraid
Out weaponsmiths are sad there is no class to use the quarterstaff yet. The humble Softwood Quarterstaff has not made an appearance, rendering the mighty Hardwood Quarterstaff irrelevant. Pity the Hardwood Quarterstaff! smile
Tink says Stab
So, apart from having your own trainers, keywords and armour visuals, what are the Ranger players who are for “proto-rangers” looking for in terms of implementation? When I think ranger, I tend to think dual-wielding, pet accompanied death machine. Dual-wielding is already in the game (even if it does only work within a few edge cases), and pets are obviously off the table.

Is it the Favoured Enemy feature that you are craving? Basic Primal spell casting? Outside of the pet technology, there aren't really all that many Ranger specific features that I can think of. Tracking? Is that a Paizo ranger thing?
Tink quivers in sheer euphoria as the dank memes course through his fedora
Giorgio
Tinkerton
So, apart from having your own trainers, keywords and armour visuals, what are the Ranger players who are for “proto-rangers” looking for in terms of implementation? When I think ranger, I tend to think dual-wielding, pet accompanied death machine. Dual-wielding is already in the game (even if it does only work within a few edge cases), and pets are obviously off the table.

Is it the Favoured Enemy feature that you are craving? Basic Primal spell casting? Outside of the pet technology, there aren't really all that many Ranger specific features that I can think of. Tracking? Is that a Paizo ranger thing?

Pathfinder Rangers can do quite a lot and are very versatile. There is a reason they are a popular choice. smile
First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

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coach
Tinkerton
Is it the Favoured Enemy feature that you are craving? Basic Primal spell casting? Outside of the pet technology, there aren't really all that many Ranger specific features that I can think of. Tracking? Is that a Paizo ranger thing?

D) all of the above

+1 to petless ranger early

then with pets to alleviate balance have them have a cooldown on death, no just insta resummon

that way you'd have to think about whether to use them or not
coach
Rynnik
Tinkerton
So, apart from having your own trainers, keywords and armour visuals, what are the Ranger players who are for “proto-rangers” looking for in terms of implementation?

I may be overthinking your question but some quick brainstorming:

The PFO Ranger

Basic Concept

Sustainability combat role. Less direct physical oomph then rogue or fighter, but increased sustain for toe to toe balance between them (perfect world). Generalists, Rangers get a bit more out of both sets of potentially equipped weapons, without getting the specific and stronger type of feature fighters get. Greater or equal party buffing to clerics but a) limited to a couple naturey types unlike the vast options available to clerics and b) only available outside of settlement and crusader road (civilized) hexs.

Weapons and Attacks

Fighter pool no need for new animations or types.

Class Features as the 'Combat Styles'.

Ranged Combat Style

Ranged Weapons bonus:
Level 1-11 Cooldown reduction: Should be roughly equal to DPS factor of Fighter specs.
Level 1-11 Stamina Cost reduction of attacks: Should be able to leave Rangers with more 'utility use' stamina then equivalent Fighter spam after compensating for cooldown reduction factor.
Level 1-11 on all attacks against slotted favoured enemies: +1 to +11 Slow

Non-ranged Weapons bonus:
Level 1-11 precise: +2 to +8
Level 1-11 base damage: +1 to +2

Hunters Bond:
Level 1-11: 10% of favoured enemy and favoured terrain bonus to all party members (10% buff at first rank - share full favoured buff with party at feature rank 11)

Two-Weapon Combat Style (includes 1 hand and shield)

Two-Weapon bonus:
Level 1-11 Cooldown reduction: Should be roughly equal to DPS factor of Fighter specs.
Level 1-11 Stamina Cost reduction of attacks: Should be able to leave Rangers with more 'utility use' stamina then equivalent Fighter spam after compensating for cooldown reduction factor.
Level 1-11 on all attacks against slotted favoured enemies: +1 to +6 Razed

Non-Two-Weapon bonus:
Level 1-11 precise: +2 to +8
Level 1-11 base damage: +1 to +2

Hunters Bond:
Level 1-11: 10% of favoured enemy and favoured terrain bonus to all party members (10% buff at first rank - share full favoured buff with party at feature rank 11)

Single Weapon Combat Style (includes 1 hand only and 2 - handed weapons)

Single Weapon bonus:
Level 1-11 Cooldown reduction: Should be roughly equal to DPS factor of Fighter specs.
Level 1-11 Stamina Cost reduction of attacks: Should be able to leave Rangers with more 'utility use' stamina then equivalent Fighter spam after compensating for cooldown reduction factor.
Level 1-11 on all attacks against slotted favoured enemies: +1 to +6 Exhausted

Non-Single Weapon bonus:
Level 1-11 precise: +2 to +8
Level 1-11 base damage: +1 to +2

Hunters Bond:
Level 1-11: 10% of favoured enemy and favoured terrain bonus to all party members (10% buff at first rank - share full favoured buff with party at feature rank 11)

Beastmaster Style

Placeholder for Pet Tech introduction.

Mounted Combat Style

Placeholder for mounted combat introduction.

Ranger Specific Defensive Feats as Favoured Terrain Bonuses

Rangers could conceivably slot all 3 of these and lose the potential of other defensive feats. Should be more expensive then other defensives and heavily Ranger Capped - I think there should be more ranks to this same max effect for Rangers but went 1-5 for parity. A great deal can be gotten for limited investment by specializing in one of these and min/max will want all three and subbing out the one that applies to any particular hex they are in:

NOTE: Hunters Bond in Ranger features turns these into 100% buffs for the PARTY at max level once cleric Auras are also implemented.

DOES NOT STACK WITH CLERIC OR OTHER PASSIVE BONUSES. Rangers get the advantage of using defensive slots for very desirable effects. Dual classing Rangers or being in receipt of Ranger auras does NOT give insane additive passive bonuses but rather allows flexibility on how bonuses achievable elsewhere in the game are achieved.

Favoured Terrain Monster Lair

Monster Hexes and Monster Homes.

Level 1-5 Speed: 1% to 15%
Level 1-5 Stealth: +5 to +25
Level 1-5 Perception: +5 to +30
Level 1-5 Encumbrance: +1 to +5
Level 1-5 Regeneration: 1% to 3%

Favoured Terrain Wilderness

Wilderness Hexes and Badlands Hexes.

Level 1-5 Speed: 1% to 15%
Level 1-5 Stealth: +5 to +25
Level 1-5 Perception: +5 to +30
Level 1-5 Encumbrance: +1 to +5
Level 1-5 Regeneration: 1% to 3%

Favoured Terrain Urban

Settlement Hexes and Crusader Road Hexes.
(NOTE: These are CIVILIZED hexes. While Rangers can learn to gain their bonus to these hexes they do NOT apply to Hunter's Bond and NEVER get passed to party members. Auras in sieges and civilized combats are the realm of clerics and others. Not Ranger.)

Level 1-5 Speed: 1% to 15%
Level 1-5 Stealth: +5 to +15
Level 1-5 Perception: +5 to +20
Level 1-5 Encumbrance: +1 to +5
Level 1-5 Regeneration: 1% to 3%

Ranger Specific Reactive Feats as the Favoured Enemy Bonuses

Rangers could conceivably slot 2 of these and lose the potential of other reactive feats. Should be more expensive then other reactives and heavily Ranger Capped - I think there should be more ranks to this same max effect for Rangers but went 1-5 for parity. A great deal can be gotten for limited investment by specializing in one of these and min/max will want all and subbing out the one that applies to any particular target they are after.

NOTE: Hunters Bond in Ranger features turns these into 100% buffs for the PARTY at max level once cleric Auras are also implemented.

Favoured Enemy Humanoid

Monsters under the 'local' knowledge category.

Level 1-5 Increase Critical: +2 to +10
Level 1-5 Perception: +2 to +10
Level 1-5 Stealth: +2 to +10
Level 1-5 Increased Drops: 1% to 5%
Level 1-5 Resist Associated damage type: a bit to a bit more

Favoured Enemy Undead

Monsters under the 'History' knowledge category.

*see humanoid category for bonuses*

Favoured Enemy Giants

Monsters under the 'Geography' knowledge category.

*see humanoid category for bonuses*

Favoured Enemy Monster

Monsters under the 'Dungeoneering, Planes, Arcana' knowledge category.

*see humanoid category for bonuses*

Favoured Enemy Animals

Monsters under the 'Nature' knowledge category.

*see humanoid category for bonuses*

Favoured Enemy Player Character

Other player characters.

(NOTE: Rangers can be great bounty hunters. They do NOT however share these particular secrets with other party members. Favoured Enemy Player Character bonuses are NEVER shared by Hunter's Bond.)

Level 1-5 Increase Critical: +2 to +10
Level 1-5 Perception: +2 to +10
Level 1-5 Stealth: +2 to +10

Ranger Armour Feats

Mage Hunter

Heaviest medium armour feat in game. Gives Rangers a brawling survivability similar to a heavy armour wearer (dragoon not unbreakable or crusader) while retaining the advantages of medium armour with less penalties. Particular quirk is it includes a spectrum of energy resists and makes Rangers the ultimate counter to Arcane foes.

All resistances and base defense: +1 to +4

Trophy Hunter

The normal Ranger medium armour damage option. Doesn't give as much attack bonus as archer or dragoon but covers all weapons. Very versatile.

Ranged, Heavy Melee, Light Melee Attack Bonus: +1 to +10

Battle Scout

Light Armour Ranger option gives closer to full damage bonuses with added sustain as the trade off for light protections.

Ranged, Heavy Melee, Light Melee Attack Bonus: +2 to +20
Regeneration: 1% to 2%
Stamina Recovery: a slight buff to stamina regen

Ranger Specific Skills

Stalker

Prerequisite Stealth 10 - 20. Ranger or Subterfuge Category Points.

Level 1- 20 Reduction of Stealth Movement Penalty: 4% per level

Tracker

Prerequisite Perception 10 - 20. Ranger Category Points.

Level 1- 20 Increase of Mini-map detection range: 1% per level

Stewardship

Ranger, Freeholder (later Druid) role levels. Ranger, Freeholder (later Druid) Category Points.

Level 1- 20 Mini-expendables created on harvesting or after a set time of being in a non-civilized terrain hex (Wilderness, Badland, Monster, Monster Home).

This odd system is meant to bolster the independent nature of these character types. Intent is that Rangers have an innate ability to live off the land and should be fully functional without having to return to a settlement (bank) after nine uses of a consumable item.

After a set amount of time out of a Settlement or Crusader Road Hex Rangers find enough materials and natural items to bolster their capacity. This results in consumable items that fit in the two consumable slots and can be used in lieu of tokens, alchemist products etc. In most cases they are functionally identical or slightly worse then the dropped or crafted versions but they are completely free for the Ranger and means fundamentally that character could function at the highest level indefinitely in the wilderness (having to return for gear or to drop off stuff obviously).

Stacks of these natural consumables randomly accrue in the Rangers inventory. They weigh nothing, take no space, and don't have to be thought about to be gained. They are gained up to their max stack of 9 through simply a chance (increasing with level) of being in a non-civilized hex for long enough or in a small chance from harvesting an appropriate node plants (healing, tangling material etc), midden (whatever), shiny rocks (grenade powder, dust etc). If desired they can be slotted in the consumable item slot and used in a manner identical to a potion or token. They do nothing if not used in lieu of a consumable. They can ever be taken out of inventory, traded, banked or accrued beyond a stack of 9. Stacks disappear and start regaining on log out or disconnect. At level 16 plus they are good enough to be roughly at Tier 2 alchemist level or greater token level.

Once a Ranger picks a Deity the Ranger will accrue a couple of these 'free' expendables that are from a small selection of orisons directly related to their deity. These orison effects are identical in all ways to the other consumables and are 'cast' from the consumables slot, while being mechanically identical to the respective orisons just not requiring the cleric skills to use as they are a Divine Ranger capacity and not needing a focus as the natural communing of the Ranger suffices.

Ranger Utilities

Hide in Plan Sight

Rogue and Ranger utility (Rogue level 10, Ranger level 12). Requires stealth 10. Requires Subterfuge or Ranger CP.

Upon use puts the character in an invulnerable stealth. Not invulnerable to any damage (normal stealth rules apply) but for .5 rounds the stealth can not be broken by either the character (no skills, attacks etc.) or by the actions of another (reveal, perception check, etc). During the half round normal stealth can be toggled to coincide with the end of 'Hide in Plain Sight' where normal perception checks and stealth breaks will take place.

Ranger Expendables

Generally themed on Divine magics (copy of applicable natural flavoured cleric expendables) but with several natural twists as well.

Rangers can set up camp without an engineer expendable to regen power for themselves (a lot) and others (a bit).

All the Pet Tech calls and Pet uses are likely to flush this out once the tech exists including Wild Empathy aspects.

Expend power to climb terrain otherwise unclimbable.

Track expendable allows short duration mini-map arrow towards an individual character or escalation boss.

Stamina Buff expendable.

Double Favoured Enemy or Favoured Terrain bonus for a certain length of time (self, does not impact Hunter's Bond aura).

Etc. Etc.



So yah. Sorta into the Ranger archetype and personally believe there are one or two small game play elements that GW could leverage for it.

Did I answer the question adequately?

smile
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
RedmondFlynn
Yea, I want rangers in the game sooner than later also.
Jazzlvraz
Rynnik
…quick brainstorming…

Wow, your brain storms a lot faster than mine. It would've taken me a day to write that, and probably another to word-smith it to an acceptable final result.
Tuoweit
I haven't had the time to analyze your suggestions in detail yet, Rynnik, but off the top of my head:

- Anything reducing Stamina costs or buffing Stamina recovery is likely a non-starter
- 15% speed boost is probably too much
Rynnik
Jazzlvraz
Rynnik
…quick brainstorming…

Wow, your brain storms a lot faster than mine. It would've taken me a day to write that, and probably another to word-smith it to an acceptable final result.
Tink's question:
03.23.2015 19:37

My Answer:
03.24.2015 10:23

I guess it wasn't THAT quick. lol

Tuoweit
I haven't had the time to analyze your suggestions in detail yet
Cool, cool. Don't sweat it too much though. It was literally open ended brainstorming. Not thesis level game design analysis stuff. Just pumping out ideas to answer Tink's very very valid, 'what exactly could a lobbied for no-pet ranger look like?'

Especially the numbers. Most were either cut and paste or random to display the point.

Keep in mind here my intent is to ask GW to consider ASKING if we would want something like this earlier in the queue then waiting until pet tech is included. Not to actually design PFO Rangers - that is 100% GW job.

Tuoweit
- Anything reducing Stamina costs or buffing Stamina recovery is likely a non-starter
Sure, no worries. Thought about tying Rangers to power stuff but didn't like it. Felt too 'caster'ish to me so I was thinking stam could be cool. If it is a 'no go' then refer to intent above.

Tuoweit
- 15% speed boost is probably too much
That is the Cleric travel domain. The numbers on stealth, perceptions etc are stolen from cleric domains as well. Personally I think they are a bit high but I wouldn't want to see Rangers with less then Clerics personally…
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
coach
awesome stuff rynnik
coach
 
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