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Dev Blog: The Arrival of Influence

KarlBob
If Influence is awarded for each crafting job, then it won't be tied to any Achievements. The crafting achievements aren't tiered the way that creature kill and weapon use achievements are. Crafting a Tier 2 +1 recipe 100 times results in an achievement awarded the first time, and nothing happening the next 99 times (except for receiving the crafted goods).
Edam
KarlBob
If Influence is awarded for each crafting job, then it won't be tied to any Achievements. The crafting achievements aren't tiered the way that creature kill and weapon use achievements are. Crafting a Tier 2 +1 recipe 100 times results in an achievement awarded the first time, and nothing happening the next 99 times (except for receiving the crafted goods).

Which is a good thing or otherwise the market would be flooded with items from people grinding craft achievements.
HowardWdW
I'm very late coming in to comment on this thread. What surprises me is that no one seems to have made the comment that allowing a few days from post of the blog to implementation of the system as it exists is a very short time period for people to absorb the implications of a new system and devise a strategy to divide up members of settlements/companies (possibly also including creating new companies), when the decision to be made has great importance since after the new system goes into place, all the hard work done up to now will be fixed in place as of that time and not "moveable" if you thereafter move company.

The second part of this is that the system that is being implemented is not complete, and therefore players don't precisely know what this "influence" is going to influence, nor how this system meshes with the settlement mechanics that are also not yet in the game. Therefore making this momentous decision has to be done based on incomplete information.

What is required to "build" a holding and other "structures"? Is it just influence, or do we also need certain materials to be gathered, refined and crafted? Where do the as yet not in game crafting skills of carpenter, architect and stonemason fit into the overall scheme? What other pieces of information are we missing that might influence the decision process?

There have been many posts lamenting the treatment of crafters and refiners in this mechanic. It appears from the devs comments that they actually DO think of crafters as secondary citizens. Rather than relegate these characters to some "secondary" status, I think PFO needs to think about how to actually make playing these roles as important to the game as gathering, PvE and PvP.

Right now I believe a large portion of crafters are second (third, fourth..) accounts or DTs. Mine certainly are. If PFO wants to attract a base of players that are actually interested in being part of the structure of a town, whose interest is in crafting and selling their wares, and NOT killing stuff, then they need to think about how to keep those roles interesting. If they do not then the eventual result will be a lack of crafters and refiners in the game, certainly at Tier 2 and 3, and that will most certainly have a negative impact long term.

Just to be clear, to get a crafter or refiner to level 20 in one skill requires training another skill of the same ability score to level 19, or 2 others to level 13 plus an armor feat. This represents an enormous amount of XP, about 3 years of it (give or take). Without dedicated crafters and refiners this isn't going to happen (in my opinion). Therefore, figuring out how to make that use of $15/month for 3 years rewarding to players who choose to take that path seems of utmost importance.
Tuoweit
HowardWdW
There have been many posts lamenting the treatment of crafters and refiners in this mechanic. It appears from the devs comments that they actually DO think of crafters as secondary citizens. Rather than relegate these characters to some "secondary" status, I think PFO needs to think about how to actually make playing these roles as important to the game as gathering, PvE and PvP.

To be clear, *playing* those roles is already very important, regardless of any impact on influence. The "lamenting" that I've been doing in this thread is about the lack of engagement of these roles, not lack of importance.
Edam
Tuoweit
To be clear, *playing* those roles is already very important, regardless of any impact on influence. The "lamenting" that I've been doing in this thread is about the lack of engagement of these roles, not lack of importance.

If your in a large settlement and get fed materials and a list of items to make that then get distributed and sold by someone else it is hard to see how crafting can ever be all that engaging.

On the other hand if you have to scrounge/gather/trade for resources and find a market for your finished goods and trade them it gets a bit more engaging.
Smeltbane
KarlBob
If Influence is awarded for each crafting job, then it won't be tied to any Achievements. The crafting achievements aren't tiered the way that creature kill and weapon use achievements are. Crafting a Tier 2 +1 recipe 100 times results in an achievement awarded the first time, and nothing happening the next 99 times (except for receiving the crafted goods).
And this is one reason I'm getting confused. There are no "counters" for Crafting Achievements. Even if Influence gets rewarded on a per crafting job, there would be no way to back trace it for the Influence you should have gotten like there is for the ones that have a real counter.
Tuoweit
Edam
Tuoweit
To be clear, *playing* those roles is already very important, regardless of any impact on influence. The "lamenting" that I've been doing in this thread is about the lack of engagement of these roles, not lack of importance.

If your in a large settlement and get fed materials and a list of items to make that then get distributed and sold by someone else it is hard to see how crafting can ever be all that engaging.

On the other hand if you have to scrounge/gather/trade for resources and find a market for your finished goods and trade them it gets a bit more engaging.

As I said earlier, those other things aren't crafting; they're gathering, and working the market. And gathering is even a separate profession, xp-wise (perhaps merchant will be too in the future). Those things do work well with crafting, but one doesn't need to be a crafter to do those things, and one doesn't need to do those things (or do much of anything at all, frankly) to be "good" at crafting. One can even do those things for a collection of several crafter alts and be just as "good" with all of those crafters as a player who only plays a single crafter character - not something you can do with adventuring/pvp roles.

To sum up the problem (as I see it) succinctly, crafting in PFO has a skill cap of almost zero. Not that PFO is alone in having that problem, but at least PFO has crowdforging so I can hope it may change one day smile
deisum
Tuoweit
To sum up the problem (as I see it) succinctly, crafting in PFO has a skill cap of almost zero. Not that PFO is alone in having that problem, but at least PFO has crowdforging so I can hope it may change one day smile

First, this thread is explicitly about influence and less about the experience of crafters, in general. Crafters are crucial to the success of the game, though their actual gameplay may not be terribly interesting. I think that's a good conversation to have, albeit elsewhere.

Secondly, the crafting meta-game is all about efficiency, so start crafting some spreadsheets that help you optimize the raw material costs to create various pluses of various items. I promise you there's a ton of content there and discovering it now will give you a leg up when a currency-based economy finally takes hold.
Tyncale
Tuoweit, would you more prefer something like crafting in EQ2? I know many people though that a silly mini-game but I kinda liked it. Could almost get into a Zen state doing it. smile I think they dumbed it down too much though to cater to the not so hardcore crafters.

SWG was nice too however this also involved getting your hands on the right quality resource, so just like in PFO that involved other activities then pure crafting.

I see what you mean though. I do not think they ever want to make crafting *that* engaging though.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Tyncale
What exactly does the symbol ^ mean in the calculation of Influence? Tried to find it but either its something really compliacted or it simply means + but thats not it I think.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
 
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