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Stealth

Caldeathe Baequiannia

So that's getting bugged presently.

https://goblinworks.com/forum/post/1478/
or at least, 11 months ago.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Edam
Stealth is currently a way to sneak past mobs and in PvP works like chaff or flares - it can break ranged target locks.

Of course in EVE you cannot stealth when targeted so at least we have that.
Memory-High Priest of Desna
without having read all 10 pages of this thread prior to this point, I thought I would add the following anecdote:

A new player (Koroshiya, i don't mind naming him) that joined my settlement recently on his trial decided to leave the game citing difficulties with the gameplay vs. his expectations. it wasn't that he thought the game was garbage, or that he had problems with the balance. Aside from the Tab targeting being clunky, he was fine with the overall controls and character-building aspects of adventuring.

He said the real reason he was quitting was Stealth. He said that he started the game really excited to play a sneaky rogue that strikes without being seen, before realizing that Stealth doesn't work anything at all like that. He expected to be able to raise his stealth to the point at which he can sneak up and melee a player without being seen prior to the attack (as it is in many other rpg games). When it became clear that that was likely impossible, he lost a great deal of enthusiasm for the game.

This isn't to say that Stealth should be changed to cater to that one player's expectations, but we must remember that some new players are going to expect stealth to work that way simply because it's called "stealth." In reality, Stealth is anything but that. Edam described it best above as a kind of Chaff or Flare to interfere with targeting. The enemy knows you're there, he just can't target you if you're using it correctly.

Perhaps stealth could be improved simply by taking steps to alter the expectations that come with it?
Adventure Time with the High Priest of Desna, begins Tuesday 08/18 at 6:00pm EST (10:00 server time) at the Thornkeep Auction house. All new players welcome!

Official titles and Nicknames:
Spherewalker of Indor-Mardil, High Priest of Desna, Dreaden-appointed Forum Troll Extraordinaire, The Southern Speedster, Slinger of Stars, Newbie-Bear, Gutter of Golgothans, King of Kiters, Johnny Ustalavian-Seed, and Peaches.
Hobson Fiffledown
Altering the expectations to 0 might work…

There are only really three things that people expect from training high stealth.

1. Alpha attack from stealth with high dps or effects. One of Dancey's nevergonnahappens, but putting that in clear writing in a "before you purchase" section would deter too many rogue players from even starting.

2. Make it harder for people to see me. Example shown above… *heavy sigh* While this seems like a ratio and mechanic issue, it blends in with the minimap decision of kiboshing most sneak game play because some people cheat. Now, I've dealt with cheaters in almost every online game since MUDs. They get found out, they get caught, they get banned. I can only assume kiboshing sneak play for everyone is a resource decision. Much of this makes implementation of a melee Hide in Plain Sight ability nothing more than a short term chaff. All you would have to do is follow the shaded figure or map pin around until the chaff wore off and kill the rogue. And that moves us to movement…

3. Increased movement rates while stealthed. As you get better at stealth, you should have increased mobility. This, at least seems like it's doable.

While managing expectations is a big issue with new recruits, the information regarding stealth would probably just keep rogue interested players from subbing in the first place. Six months in and stealth is still laughable (thankfully, I decided to give GW twelve months of try…get on it GW). Thank goodness they bundled the rogue trainer with the commoner trainers in the guild house. At least, I feel like that was a little rogue love. It even makes sense.

I'm here to play my rogue. Any other characters I may have are just for support, flavor, and side fun. My main has been a rogue or assassin since MUDs. If I showed up today, as a new player, I can't say that I wouldn't frustration-quit in a week either. I think GW needs to manage their stealth more than new players need to manage their expectations.
This space for rent.
Ryan Dancey
Jut to be clear - the ability of people to see you on the minimap and on the full screen decreases as the amount your Stealth exceeds their Perception.

Memory-High Priest of Desna
Ryan Dancey
Jut to be clear - the ability of people to see you on the minimap and on the full screen decreases as the amount your Stealth exceeds their Perception.
Thanks Ryan, but i think the general gripe that people eventually arrive at is that it doesn't decrease enough. Somebody with relatively low or only moderate perception has enough to get a minimap visual on somebody with very high Stealth at a range that is sufficient to escape in the event of an ambush. Most stealth-enthusiasts feel they should be able to hold much more of an element of surprise on the opponent, and that their higher stealth should require much higher perception in order to be broken.

Basically, they're upset because it takes a very high XP investment to make stealth effective in the way that most people expect it to be, and a very small XP investment to make perception high enough to effectively overcome that advantage.

I'm not saying that it's easy get high enough perception to NEGATE stealth, i'm saying that the advantage granted by stealth is so marginal that it can be overcome with very little XP investment.
Adventure Time with the High Priest of Desna, begins Tuesday 08/18 at 6:00pm EST (10:00 server time) at the Thornkeep Auction house. All new players welcome!

Official titles and Nicknames:
Spherewalker of Indor-Mardil, High Priest of Desna, Dreaden-appointed Forum Troll Extraordinaire, The Southern Speedster, Slinger of Stars, Newbie-Bear, Gutter of Golgothans, King of Kiters, Johnny Ustalavian-Seed, and Peaches.
Hobson Fiffledown
I don't believe anyone is unclear about the current effects of stealth and perception. Enough people have posted details and screenshots describing their issues with the current system. Even with the acceptance that some general stealth expectations will never be met, what remains is lackluster and minimally effective. The difference between my R10 Stealth R10 Perception rogue and my R0 Stealth and R0 Perception other characters is negligible.

Yes, there are ways to use the current mechanics to your advantage. The rogue class discussions sometimes bring up the idea that people are not using the rogue feats "correctly". Just because some people can drift corners in an Edsel does not mean the Edsel is a well made vehicle.
This space for rent.
Daeglin
Hobson Fiffledown
I don't believe anyone is unclear about the current effects of stealth and perception. Enough people have posted details and screenshots describing their issues with the current system. Even with the acceptance that some general stealth expectations will never be met, what remains is lackluster and minimally effective. The difference between my R10 Stealth R10 Perception rogue and my R0 Stealth and R0 Perception other characters is negligible.

Yes, there are ways to use the current mechanics to your advantage. The rogue class discussions sometimes bring up the idea that people are not using the rogue feats "correctly". Just because some people can drift corners in an Edsel does not mean the Edsel is a well made vehicle.

Exactly
Good… Bad… I'm the guy with the bow.
Rynnik
Doc
I don't think it meets expectations for what the Dev's think it should be, based on this:

-Stephen Cheney-
So we tested Stealth in the office today and determined:
Stealth is absolutely reducing the distance at which you can be perceived.
It's reducing it by significantly less than expected.

200 Stealth vs. 10 Perception should let you get to 26.5% of your normal visibility, and it's only letting you get to about 50%. Equal Stealth vs. Perception should let you get to 55% of your normal visibility, and it's only letting you get to about 80% or 90%.

So that's getting bugged presently.
https://goblinworks.com/forum/post/1478/
As soon as stealth equal to perception lets you actually get to 55% of your normal visibility instead of the current 80%-90% I'll be very okay with it.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Dreamslinger
Rynnik
As soon as stealth equal to perception lets you actually get to 55% of your normal visibility instead of the current 80%-90% I'll be very okay with it.
+1
 
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