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Targeting

Dazyk of Phaeros
I am very excited to see the new targeting UI that is planned to go live in EE7, but it got me thinking that there is still one major piece of the targeting puzzle that is missing: A list of who is targeting me.

For the sake of MVP, I envision a first iteration of this as a simple list, maybe 10-12 slots under the Achievement tracker, of who has recently targeted me. I don't know (or really care) if the names drop off after some sort of timer expires, as soon as I am no longer targeted by the entity (server intensive?), or if the newest names simply push down the older names until they fall off of the list.

As the iteration process goes on, I can think of how amazing it would be to interact with the list directly! If someone targets me, I can simply click their name from the list and now they are targeted too. Somewhere down the line I could see additional info in the list; such as, if the entity has recently attacked me, or has an attack in a queue waiting for me. Perhaps even similar info relating to party members.

I know there will always be an element of latency, but frankly that doesn't bother me. The benefits of seeing who has me target far outweigh that (and I would be interested to see what the Devs could come up with regarding the Target list and Sneak Attack, Perception, and other such things). I actually wouldn't even mind if this was a list that needed to be manually refreshed on occasion (like the Holdings list).

Currently, especially in PVP, we cannot even really begin to formulate strategies when engaging in mass battle. Putting aside all of the other targeting problems (flagging, etc.), most of the time PVP is a whole coop of chickens running around with their heads cut off. We need to be able to know who is killing us, so that we can begin to strategise.

Even in PVE this 'Targeted by' list would be amazingly helpful, especially for controlling aggro.

Anyway, this is my dream, what is your dream? smile
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Kitsune
I'm not one to usually argue in favor of "zomg, that's so immersion-breaking!" … but in this case, I think that a list of "things targeting me" is too much information.

Can you provide examples of MMOs that actually give this information to players?
(and don't include WoW … that games already gives way too much info to players, IMHO)

I just personally don't like the idea in general.

Sorry.

But please, carry-on discussion. I'm curious to see more on the idea.
Dazyk of Phaeros
EVE.

And really, lets look at the immersion breaking:

Our characters are heroes; one would think that they would have the situational awareness to understand that "that mage over there is pointing a wand at me" or "that rogue looked at me funny" or "I know for sure that arrow came from over in that direction."

Right now, we are completely in the dark. We don't know who hit us, how much they hit us for (indicating threat level), if it was one target or multiple… Nothing. (Edit: slight exaggeration, sure, but who can really read all those floaty numbers?)

In a PVE game that would likely work ok; but in a game that is supposed to be all about big, strategic PVP battles, it just isn't working. (Edit: In my opinion)

Last Edit: I also think this idea works well with the GW goal of PFO being a 'non-twitch' based game. Clicking on characters is always going to be somewhat difficult (for some more than others) and I believe anything that facilitates that will be a good thing for the game in general.
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Edam
Dazyk of Phaeros
EVE.

And really, lets look at the immersion breaking:

It gets used in EVE more for calling for logi support when you get nominated primary by the enemy FC than anything else. A good fleet can have logi repairing you almost before the other side has you locked.
Garric Orcsbane
The problem I see with this is that you are going to get a list of people who clicked on your toon to offer a trade, find out who you are, and figure out how to spell your name for a party invite as well. I don't see any way to differentiate between hostile targeting and non-hostile targeting since the mechanic is the same. You will have a similar problem if one of your own party goes Red and you tab on them even if you tab past.
Nihimon
I love this idea.

Kitsune
Can you provide examples of MMOs that actually give this information to players?

Vanguard also provided an "Encounter List" that was a lot like this, and that I've lobbied for in PFO.

I actually think Dazyk's proposal of limiting it to folks who are actively targeting you is a great improvement. And to address JAHunt's objection, I think limiting it to folks who've actually already attacked you is perfectly fine.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Midnight
Wow, just read this and found I was arguing for the same thing in another thread. I want to know who has damaged *me* in the last 60 seconds. There should be an attacked-me flag that is more distinctive than a mere attacker flag.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Gog
I'm not sure I see this as necessary. In a duel or small encounter, you can probably tell who's attacking you. In a big scrum, the chaos of battle makes it perfectly reasonable that you don't instantly know who's attacking you.

If you are attacked while you have no target, you should automatically target your attacker. I believe this is already happening, and I'm not sure what more than that is really needed: if you already have a target then you are by definition focusing your attention on him rather than on general situational awareness.

In EVE, it makes thematic sense to provide this information given the significant amount of game design devoted to targeting and anti-targeting technology. PFO is a very different setting and game; we're not locking sensors onto a foe, we're just choosing him.
^This is Dak (Charlie George). RIP <Guurzak>
Nihimon
Guurzak
… if you already have a target then you are by definition focusing your attention on him rather than on general situational awareness.

That is a really compelling point, but I don't think it's enough. In order for that to be persuasive, I think we'd also need a game system that was more fully developed so that ranged attackers weren't able to shoot arrows into a melee scuffle without a high chance of hitting a friend.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Caldeathe Baequiannia
In a fully fleshed-out game, it would be nice if your perception played a roll in identifying who is hitting you. In the meantime, it might or might not be reasonable to identify exactly who shot the arrow that just hit me, but I should at the very least be able to get the right quadrant.

Maybe a "Last Hostile" button/key, that scrolls backward, starting with the most recent damage and moving through a short list of 2 or 3 recent hits. Even if it only highlights, or turns me in the right direction, rather than actually targeting them?

On which subject, a "rotate 45 degrees (left or right)" key would be nice, I think.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
 
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