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Bad vs Wrong

Decius
Phyllain
Wow this is 27 pages. Didn't pretty much every major group at one point in this thread say they would never spawn camp? I know I have, I know TSV leaders have said the same. Cheatle and I have talked about it in the past I know where he stands on the issue. I can't imagine any of guys in the north of the map advocating it. Why is this debate still on going if every one agreed to not do it?
We still can't agree on what it is that we aren't doing.
Dazyk of Phaeros
Nihimon
Dazyk of Phaeros
Who the original aggressor was should be irrelevant; the whole point of the discussion should be protecting those who have died and been raised at a shrine.

I could not disagree with this more strongly.

Imagine a stranger wanders into your land, does you no harm (that is, does not harvest any Resources or Escalations and does not attack any other players), and you kill him and then repeatedly kill him again as he tries to flee.

Now imagine an enemy that invades your land, after a long history of repeatedly killing anyone they see in your territory and a consistent pattern of reengaging after they've been killed, and you kill him and then repeatedly kill him again as he tries to flee.

There is a world of difference between those two scenarios. In the first, there is every reason to believe the player is genuinely attempting to flee the area. In the second, there is every reason to believe the player is only attempting to flee your immediate vicinity so that he can reengage elsewhere.

We should never intentionally blind ourselves to the circumstances that led up to an event, or to the history and behavior of the other players we're interacting with.

I guess it's my naive, chaotic side (maybe a hint of Canadian?) that makes me feel like every situation should be judged separately. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I know I would hate to be judged based on my previous actions, I am sure I am not alone. Everyone has made mistakes and done things they shouldn't have done, or that they are not proud of.

Besides, my 'rule-of-thumb' specifically only states "don't attack the raised character unless they attack/engage first." I am definitely not advocating giving them gifts and sending them on their way; if it was me I would likely shadow them and verify that their intentions really are to retreat. At worst, they trick me and get one free shot in, at which point I am cleared weapons-hot and they are the target.

At best, the people who really wanted to escape the PVP leave with no hurt feelings from being killed 19+ times.
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

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Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Nihimon
Don't get me wrong, I believe in second chances at least as much as the next guy. I'm a Raiders fan, after all.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Phyllain
Decius
Phyllain
Wow this is 27 pages. Didn't pretty much every major group at one point in this thread say they would never spawn camp? I know I have, I know TSV leaders have said the same. Cheatle and I have talked about it in the past I know where he stands on the issue. I can't imagine any of guys in the north of the map advocating it. Why is this debate still on going if every one agreed to not do it?
We still can't agree on what it is that we aren't doing.
Oh ok. Carry on then.
tribuzio
Phyllain
Wow this is 27 pages. Didn't pretty much every major group at one point in this thread say they would never spawn camp? I know I have, I know TSV leaders have said the same. Cheatle and I have talked about it in the past I know where he stands on the issue. I can't imagine any of guys in the north of the map advocating it. Why is this debate still on going if every one agreed to not do it?

Because no one has really defined it, so what one person describe as shrine camping for another is acceptable behavior and at the same time what the first person find unacceptable is acceptable for the second.

From how how I read the posts some people that is very generous in the kind of protection that people respawning at a shrine should get is at the same time very free in killing people that is suffering from other forms of inability to react. They are trying to transform the protection against shrine camping in a free pass to avoid retaliation for their acts.

Even if I haven't said that they see my opinion as that of a guy that will shrine camp them until their gear is destroyed (I advocate gear destruction as a form of punishment, but I have suggested several ways to give adequate protection after respawning).

To add to that, I would like GW to implement a mechanic that protect respawning people.

If someone can guarantee that during a fight near a shrine he will not erroneously target and even attack: friends, just respawned character or a nearby node, I must bow to a better player than me.
I know I have targeted all the above at least once during a PvE encounter near a shrine.

An egregious example is the day that the respawning mechanism broke. We had some death in our group and rushed to the shrine to protect them from the ogres near it. I had suffered some collateral damage from an area attack and one of the just rezzed characters was one of the guys that had hit me, so while tabbing I targeted and hit him once. Then realized my mistake and changed target.
As there where only friendly human targets it was easy to notice. In a battle with several humans on both sides, if tabbing target a just rezzed character, you are sure you would notice? Especially seeing how half of the time you go and target someone outside of your field of vision?
The Fool
Phyllain
Oh ok. Carry on then.

Long thread. First post on this forum. Hi everybody :-)

May I ask for a clarification regarding what people consider "shrine camping" ?



A character dies - it does not matter here what she may have done in the past 20 minutes, hours or days.

This character respawns at a shrine, finding herself surrounded by a group of hostile characters.

They let her load up the client properly and look around.
She starts to move away from the shrine - it does not matter here in which direction - without performing any aggressive action towards the hostile group surrounding her, and as soon as she is 30 meters away from the shrine, she is attacked and killed.

Now repeat this 2, 5, 10 times.
Each time, the character is fully able to move and react before being attacked - but effectively the player has no way to disengage.



Would you consider this "shrine camping" ?


The Fool
Never trust a fool.
Ryan Dancey
Yes.
Flynn Pontis
I believe that you need to give the person in question a reasonable avenue of escape, when I have killed someone once I will give them the opportunity to flee what I perceive to be Golgothan territory and if they run in the right direction I leave them alone (Golgothan territory is not static we interdict certain places from time to time). If I find that they stuck around out of range in stealth I kill them again. I would not however cast a wide net around the area and make the person who has already died have to run past roaming death squads looking to kill the defeated person as many times as they can before getting away. That in my mind is on the same spectrum as spawn camping, in the sense that the defeated party has difficulty trying to leave the territory. And we all know Pharasma perhaps the most evil being of all takes pleasure in spawning us back in enemy territory, sometimes if she is feeling particularly evil she revives you in a nearby hostile settlement to be ceremoniously executed by her devoted followers the thornguard. Long winded rant aside BRING IN SOUL BINDING!! please… smile
Drogon
Wow, long thread, I apologize for skimming and only reading 1/3rd of the posts…. Back to the OP, I absolutely agree and understand the difference between Bad and Wrong. Good can also do Wrong. Good point in general.

Maybe a solution to the other issues would be to change PVP so whereas you don't take gear damage when killed by another player for the first death of each hour. At the same time you receive a Rez sickness debuff when killed by another player that doesn't allow you to do any significant damage for a cool off period of 15-30 minutes. This would only be effective outside an active PVP and/or feuding window.
HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. "
 
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