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Bad vs Wrong

Nihimon
Oh, and Rynnik, let's not forget. You've killed me at a shrine before I had a chance to do anything more times than I've ever killed anyone at a shrine before they had a chance to do anything.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Phyllain
Any evidence to back that up? Because I have plenty of my guys that claim to have been killed by you and decius at a shrine as well.
Rynnik
Nihimon
Oh, and Rynnik, let's not forget. You've killed me at a shrine before I had a chance to do anything more times than I've ever killed anyone at a shrine before they had a chance to do anything.
Once? https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/2410/?page=3#post-23685

Rynnik
Nihimon
I appreciate you owning that. It was rather surprising to see your name charging in killing me while I was respawning. I'm glad to know it was an honest mistake.

I was rather surprised to find myself doing it! There was a reason it only happened once as the instant it actually registered with me that a shrine was there I bailed. Thus the request for a stronger visual or, even better, a fence around shrines.
Yah, okay.

Have we really got to that 'phase' of this conversation? Because if you are fixed on this stance and don't want to engage in normal discourse about it that is fine - just dig your heels in on 'we are above the community' and carry on with your griefing ways then.

At least now you are being 100% honest rather then previously where I guess you caved to community pressure but never actually meant the apology you gave here: https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/2081/?page=15#post-20255

Nihimon
We will not spawn camp folks to break their gear. That's not the right way to try to overcome that sense of powerlessness. I can't guarantee that no one will ever get killed at a shrine once or twice before everyone realizes they're actually running away, but I can commit to using whatever influence I have to try to make sure folks don't do it on purpose or as a matter of course.
which you recently reaffirmed here: https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/2410/?page=7#post-23791
Nihimon
Nihimon
We will not spawn camp folks to break their gear… I can commit to using whatever influence I have to try to make sure folks don't do it on purpose or as a matter of course.

I stand by that.
and I guess never meant once.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Nihimon
Yeah, Rynnik, your "once" is more than all the times I've ever done it. That was my point.

I killed Rage like 5 times at a shrine in less than 10 minutes, but every single time I waited until he started moving and I only attacked if he moved towards me or if he started attacking. The couple of times he moved away from me, I didn't do a thing until he started attacking.

Yeah, I've made a commitment that I won't kill folks at a shrine before they're able to act, and to use what influence I have to encourage other folks to avoid doing that, too. I stand by that commitment. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize your trolling T7V as trolling.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Rynnik
Nihimon
Yeah, Rynnik, your "once" is more than all the times I've ever done it. That was my point.

I killed Rage like 5 times at a shrine in less than 10 minutes, but every single time I waited until he started moving and I only attacked if he moved towards me or if he started attacking. The couple of times he moved away from me, I didn't do a thing until he started attacking.

Yeah, I've made a commitment that I won't kill folks at a shrine before they're able to act, and to use what influence I have to encourage other folks to avoid doing that, too. I stand by that commitment. But that doesn't mean I don't recognize your trolling T7V as trolling.

And MY point is that Rynnik, Ryan Dancey, and this community at large believe some things are wrong. These wrong behaviours are both indefensible but also unrelated to playing 'bad' or 'good' in game.

This community believes shrine camping is one of those wrong things.

Slick little play to try and update your perspective to include 'before they are able to act' now? Want to go back and edit your already quoted statements to include that since you didn't mention it before?

Your obfuscation, backtracking, and attempts to distract from this issue (the topic of the thread) don't actually confuse me and I doubt they confuse anyone else from an awfully clear perception of Phaeros as the only organization I have heard of that isn't openly and outspokenly opposing griefing. Well played I guess. Accusations of trolling will totally counter that one!
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Nihimon
Rynnik
And MY point is that Rynnik, Ryan Dancey, and this community at large believe some things are wrong. These wrong behaviours are both indefensible but also unrelated to playing 'bad' or 'good' in game. This community believes shrine camping is one of those things.

Ryan Dancey
It has come to my attention that some players have decided that camping shrines and repeatedly killing respawning characters is acceptable.

There are times when I would agree - open PvP windows in hexes for example. Or when trying to hurt a character that has tresspassed or is misbehaving enough to induce that player to desist or leave.

I think you're willfully distorting what Ryan has said.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Phyllain
I'll be honest. I don't care what Ryan says about shrine camping. It is bad form.
Rynnik
Nihimon
I think you're willfully distorting what Ryan has said.

Ryan has said that he agrees on the difference between wrong and bad actions as it relates to this game and as earlier defined by you.

He has also stated that GW is developing an, as yet unreleased, policy on shrine camping due to the unacceptable presence of it in the game presently.

In discussing this policy and the need for it, the community, in an unsurprising move given past conversation on the topic, suggests that that policy, which Ryan was asking for opinions on, be a complete ban of the activity until such time as in game mechanics can be instituted to obviate the need for a policy on it at all.

Only Phaeros has stood alone against decrying shrine camping as an activity for 'Jerks' and which is something undesirable in this game.

I mean I get the 'damage control mode' but honestly it isn't like I am trying to pick and choose things here or have tried to spin anything to make you look bad. If you sense that you perhaps look bad in this or feel a bit hurt by it maybe it is time to evaluate if you should actually and honestly join in the conversation to try and make this game and community a better place rather then harbouring whatever hurt and baggage it is that you are carrying from the past few years that makes getting true, forthright, and civil discussion out of you impossible in this context.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Avari
I believe that Phaeros, AGC, Golgotha and I'm sure some others I don't know about or have forgotten have all at one time or another committed mistakes in this game that can be described as griefing. Many/most of those mistakes have happened in the vacuum of incomplete game mechanics or as holdover behaviors from other games that needed to be cleansed. We are in a pickle with territorial conflict already in the game but no better method than armor break available for establishing win conditions in a hex.

I agree that the best alternative among imperfect ones is to ban shrine camping until we have the proper white flag mechanics. That will require groups who do not trust each other, to trust each other, and create server wide rules of engagement since we are practically playing baseball with ghost runners.

Good luck with that.
KarlBob
(Attempting to ignore the usual sidetracking of most threads on this forum into Power Bloc One vs Power Bloc Two,) yes, some actions are wrong. I don't care whether you're playing as Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil, organizing a small group suicide run into Marchmont to kill as many newbies as you could before the Thornguards killed all of your group would be wrong. Disrupting a Keepside Chat with a GW employee by trying to kill the moderator or the audience members would be wrong. Entering the Help channel and advising new players to practice their combat skills by attacking Thornguards would be wrong. Telling new players that the garbage can at the bottom of the inventory screen is a secure container for their most valuable items would be wrong. Filling General Chat with profanity and links to porn and shock sites would be wrong.
 
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