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Excited/Worried

Doc
We're not stakeholders, we're customers. And any prospective people we "recruit" to play this game for money would be the same. Customers. Not recognizing that makes a person a sub-optimal "ambassador" for this game because you've lost objectivity.

No amount of forum posting is going to make a game/product financially viable if its not worth paying money to play, in the eyes of the market and target audience. I'm actually more inclined to believe it will hurt its prospects, because people can smell desperation a mile away, and fanboys who have lost objectivity the same. Ultimately, the game has to speak for itself and stand on its own merits. If it is laudable, organic discussion and promotion will spring up, grassroots style. Word spreads for meritorious reasons.

GW should make you a community manager or laison or something, and then I'd think you'd be taken more seriously. People don't expect dev/marketing team people to blatantly overlook critical deficiencies of a product, because it hurts their long term viability in the market. The Internet never forgets. But players can and do lie or distort the realities of a game they desperately want to succeed, all the time. And that is why fanboys hurt a game more than help, because others just dismiss what they say out of hand or assume the opposite to be the truth.

Give us something that people will want to play for $15/month or drop the price and/or change the business model into something that is viable from a customer acquisition/retention and financial standpoint. Or give some of these player promoters some kind of semi-official status, so it doesn't look like anything more than fanboy vs. troll forum combat.
Wylder
Marketing doesn't fix the reason players have left. That fix, in line with what I mentioned above, overlaps the recruitment effort for new players. That fix is in Goblin Works control.

Let's make certain the emperor has clothes before touting how great the game is and why people need to join.

BTW, I attempted to respond to erroneous comments made on MMORPG, and my post was tagged as spam. Fortunately, my point was made by others, so I didn't bother to push the issue. I refuse to use Facebook or some of the other services.

Don't know whether Goblin Works is being impacted by lack of player subscriptions, but we are seeing this impact in game. Some of that could just be that we're all spread out. Our company regularly seeks to group with other companies and settlements, and those experiences have been positive and fun.
Doc
BTW, I attempted to respond to erroneous comments made on MMORPG, and my post was tagged as spam.

Another reason why people of an official capacity need to respond to perceived misinformation, rather than "white knights".

Ryan Dancey's Q/A forum thread on MMORPG was excellent. It probably had more profound and lasting influence on the discussion than anything else some player from the game could do. Ryan should form a team of "official" community liasons, even if just un-paid interns, so that they can post on these forums with an official "dev team badge" or something. Then they can just reply with utterly factual information from a dispassionate standpoint. That will be more successful, IMHO, than fanboys coming to the rescue.
Mbando
I am actively on MMORPG, Massively, and reddit, trying to at least counter the insanely/inanely innacurate and stupid stuff posted about PFO there. It's particularly bad at MMORPG–Bluudwolf posts there constantly, and just says the most outrageous lies about the game, along with someone named "Slapshot1188." I don;t who they were on the paizo forums, but it's definitely someone who was involved and got all butt-hurt.
A member of Ozem's Vigil, home to servants of Iomedae and her coming Paladins.
Tyncale
Doc
We're not stakeholders, we're customers. And any prospective people we "recruit" to play this game for money would be the same. Customers. Not recognizing that makes a person a sub-optimal "ambassador" for this game because you've lost objectivity.

No amount of forum posting is going to make a game/product financially viable if its not worth paying money to play, in the eyes of the market and target audience. I'm actually more inclined to believe it will hurt its prospects, because people can smell desperation a mile away, and fanboys who have lost objectivity the same. Ultimately, the game has to speak for itself and stand on its own merits. If it is laudable, organic discussion and promotion will spring up, grassroots style. Word spreads for meritorious reasons.

GW should make you a community manager or laison or something, and then I'd think you'd be taken more seriously. People don't expect dev/marketing team people to blatantly overlook critical deficiencies of a product, because it hurts their long term viability in the market. The Internet never forgets. But players can and do lie or distort the realities of a game they desperately want to succeed, all the time. And that is why fanboys hurt a game more than help, because others just dismiss what they say out of hand or assume the opposite to be the truth.

Give us something that people will want to play for $15/month or drop the price and/or change the business model into something that is viable from a customer acquisition/retention and financial standpoint. Or give some of these player promoters some kind of semi-official status, so it doesn't look like anything more than fanboy vs. troll forum combat.

Couldn't agree with this more. I am a huge fanboi (with ups and downs), yet I won't pitcht it. It's like trying to get people to like (or even read) a book that you like: hardly ever works imo.
Now I think the last Community news letter was a great one, that sort of thing should get people interested in taking a look. Unfortunately that email goes mostly to people who are either playing the game already, or have discarded it already in the past.

That news letter, where companies and settlements actually talk exitedly about the stuff they are already doing, should get more news coverage.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Edam
It's very hard to counter negative publicity if some individual or disgruntled group is intent on undermining a new product. it is probably part of the reason the big budget companies test under a non disclosure agreement and only release big budget animated cut scenes before the game goes live.

I know of one new game about 7 or 8 years ago that is still the best in its genre even now but no longer sold partly because one individual took personal offense because he felt his suggestions (which amounted to making the game more arcade like) where being dismissed and spent several years spamming every forum and website he could find under multiple names trying to undermine it. Of course there were some genuine problems in that game that needed to be overcome but a very small group were able to pretty much guarantee the game failure.
Dreamslinger
I'm honestly not sure what angle I could use to intice someone to play PFO that hasn't already drank the kool-aid. I'm enjoying the game in spite of its many shortcomings because I've been following the game since the first Kickstarter and feel that Ryan and crew sincerly want to make the game they've been describing in the blogs over the last couple of years.

I'm willing to spend some of my time and money to help get the game that I want to play made. I don't know that I'd feel comfortable trying to convice people that they need to get on board as well.
RedmondFlynn
If you like the game and want it to succeed you should realize that it doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference whether you consider yourself a customer or a stakeholder. Goblinworks has explained from day one that they are developing this game on a shoestring budget, so they probably don't have a lot of money to throw at marketing. But without enough subscription fees to cover monthly operations, the game will fail. So Goblinworks is being straight with you and telling you that if you don't recruit new players, the game might fail. As a paying customer, you don't like that. But whether you like it or not doesn't change the reality of the situation. So if you want this game to succeed, get other people to subscribe.
Atheory
@RedmondFlynn - Has GW actually said that if we the player base don't recruit more players the game might fail?
Edam
Atheory
@RedmondFlynn - Has GW actually said that if we the player base don't recruit more players the game might fail?

I think the actual comment (from Ryan?) was meant as a suggestion to small settlements struggling to recruit from the existing playerbase (because current in-game players tend to go to Golgotha/Brighthaven or just stay solo) that they could try using Buddy invites to recruit directly among non players. The normal doom-sayers just jumped on it as ammunition for the claims the game is doomed and dieing.

As an EVE player you get used to that. Someone is always announcing EVE is dieing becaause of some feature or activity they dislike and people have been doing so for 10 years now and EVE is still there.
 
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