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EE v8 TEST SERVER Release Notes

Caldeathe Baequiannia
Holdings and outposts
Bulk resources are not used in the crafting system and are solely used by Holdings and Settlements. They are heavier than other resources and more difficult to transport, though initially (until we get more transportation systems online) we may make them lighter.
Hardly a promise. The actual promise was verbal, that we would not have to have dozens of people running around the map with bulk resources to keep things up. I spent an hour last night, using a broken cleric spell that won't work in the finished product, hauling ten Stone one hex over to a Mine, then ten Ore two hexes over to a ranch, then ten Food one hex over to a Lumbermill, then 10 Trade goods three hexes over to the Quarry. It was tedious. It was not remotely hard-is-fun.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
AlexanderDamocles
"The Open PvP system is being removed. Hexes no longer have Open PvP windows. Instead, Towers can be taken if the PvP window is open for that Hex, and the attackers have Feueded the owners of that Tower. Since the Open PvP system is gone the only characters who will be "Red" are those in the Fueded Company. This change should address the issue of not being able to heal friendlies during Tower battles. This also means that reputation-free PvP is only possible against Feud targets."
If I provide beneficial effects to a member of a different company who is under attack by an enemy through a feud, will I be a rep-free target, or will they have to eat the rep cost of dealing with the healer?
Yrme
Guurzak
I was under the impression that feuds would be required in order to destroy holdings or transfer sovereignty, but that outpost raiding would be open to all comers during the hex's PVP window. Is this not the longterm plan?

In the 30 March Outpost and Holding post, they said,

Beginning in Phase Two, characters that are not part of the Company controlling an Outpost can try to take the bulk resources it produces during its PvP window. Doing so flags the thief with the Criminal flag, making him a Reputation-free kill for some amount of time. If no one collects the Bulk Resources from the Outpost, they are automatically transferred to the Holding at the end of the PvP window.

To me it seems to say that, yes, outpost raiding is open to all comers, but taking stuff gets the thief a Criminal flag. This new info means that killing people as part of a cattle raid gets the raiders Rep losses, unless the raid occurs during a feud. The PvP window is a flag to the raiders indicating that there is loot in the outposts, but doesn't give them protection.

edit to add: Older blog posts said that raiding holding would be an open/Rep free activity, but I think this latest explanation falls into the continuum of conflict better.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Quijenoth
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Quijenoth
At no point have they said your outposts stop producing resources and feeding the holding, just that you wont be able to take them away unless you bring with you the resources to access to vault. Since we currently don't want to remove them as they are too heavy to take to the settlement you may as well simply not pay the upkeep. (please Devs correct me if I have misread this)

Holdings and outposts
If the Holding does not have sufficient resources in the Company Holding Vault, the Holding enters a Damaged state and its features can no longer be accessed. If these upkeep costs are not paid repeatedly, the Holding will eventually begin downgrading and in time will be destroyed, along with any Outposts in its hex.

That was not in the patch notes - what post/blog are you quoting this from (and could a Dev still confirm this is going to be the case and if it is going live as of EE8 )

edit: ok its from the blog post lee put up before ee7…

id also like to point out the first paragraph to you from that blog post…

We want to deploy this feature as quickly as we can while the mechanics are still in development and thus get feedback on them while basic functionality is still in development to enable some significant Crowdforging.
Quijenoth
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Holdings and outposts
Bulk resources are not used in the crafting system and are solely used by Holdings and Settlements. They are heavier than other resources and more difficult to transport, though initially (until we get more transportation systems online) we may make them lighter.
Hardly a promise. The actual promise was verbal, that we would not have to have dozens of people running around the map with bulk resources to keep things up. I spent an hour last night, using a broken cleric spell that won't work in the finished product, hauling ten Stone one hex over to a Mine, then ten Ore two hexes over to a ranch, then ten Food one hex over to a Lumbermill, then 10 Trade goods three hexes over to the Quarry. It was tedious. It was not remotely hard-is-fun.

from earlier in this thread
Lisa Stevens
You have my word. You will not be required to use bulk resources for settlement upkeep until there is a way to move bulk resources around easier than a single person carrying those resources around. Now, holding are a different story. They take resources from their associated outposts automatically, without the need to carry them from the outpost to the holding. So holdings can use resources for upkeep without needing to transport them, which is what EE8 implements. This is NOT settlement upkeep. This is holding upkeep.

-Lisa

The only thing making you move these resources is you. as I said before - re-evaluate your holding and outpost distribution and many will become self sufficient - right now everyone has min-maxed looking at the best numbers a hex will produce of X resource not caring about the cost in resources. now you actually have to do something you care, and you whine because its harder than anticipated. In this case hard may not be fun but in this case you can do something about making it not so hard.
Takasi
Is there a reason some of the holding requirements were changed from 7.2 to 8.0?

For example, prior to the wiki data update a +0 Quarry was Ore 10 and a +0 Ranch was Stone 10. Now they've changed to Trade 10 and Ore 10 respectively.

If these numbers are still in flux can one of the developers speak on the logic behind these changes? I'd prefer to see a +0 Quarry require 10 Stone and a +0 Ranch to require 10 Trade, if the intention is to make introductory holdings small effort small reward.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Quijenoth
id also like to point out the first paragraph to you from that blog post…

We want to deploy this feature as quickly as we can while the mechanics are still in development and thus get feedback on them while basic functionality is still in development to enable some significant Crowdforging.
Hence my post…
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Brighthaven Leader
@Quijenoth

I feel like you don't understand, we need 700 resources moved each day….

If you want to upgrade 1 Holding by 1 level that is going to cost you 10 resources you are going to have to move from somewhere else, because you can't produce those resources in hex. Essentially, you are suggesting that we gimp ourselves to pay for our holdings so we don't have to do the work, OR do the work that we aren't actually meant to do, with the carrying capacity we currently have.

Even if we did it once per week, that is 4900 resources, that is 24,500 encumbrance a week for us. That is 490 trips for the average player, and if we can get 20-30 people to cycle in and out all day, we still need 10 different people from each company to have access to those secure vaults. It is a lot of work to have a large settlement, and I am saying that we don't have the tools.
Brighthaven is a Neutral Good settlement focused on defending its citizens and its allies from negative fringe based PvP (Player Killing and Griefing) while striving to become a large and shining beacon for Good. Whether you wish to benefit from this protection or you love PvP and wish to assist in providing this protection, Brighthaven aims to be the home and support center for you!
Ryan Dancey
The Test Server has been updated to Early Enrollment v8.1!
Yrme
Cheatle for TEO
@Quijenoth

I feel like you don't understand, we need 700 resources moved each day….

If you want to upgrade 1 Holding by 1 level that is going to cost you 10 resources you are going to have to move from somewhere else, because you can't produce those resources in hex. Essentially, you are suggesting that we gimp ourselves to pay for our holdings so we don't have to do the work, OR do the work that we aren't actually meant to do, with the carrying capacity we currently have.

Even if we did it once per week, that is 4900 resources, that is 24,500 encumbrance a week for us. That is 490 trips for the average player, and if we can get 20-30 people to cycle in and out all day, we still need 10 different people from each company to have access to those secure vaults. It is a lot of work to have a large settlement, and I am saying that we don't have the tools.

1. Each holding has an upkeep of 10 resources a day, before upgrades. So when you say 700 resources per day, are you talking about the entire server; 70 hexes with holdings?

2. As Q has said above, you certainly can produce resources in hex - it just depends on the holding and outposts. An Inn holding needs 10 food per day. The people who placed farms or hunting lodges next to their inns don't have to move anything to keep food on the table. Likewise, a watchtower needs ore, and if there are mines in the hex then no ore needs to be moved.

3. To reduce the work of shifting resources, with or without mules or carts, it's going to be in a company's interest to (a) have a pretty tight footprint so they don't need to travel far, and (b) have a mix of holdings and outposts within the company in order to allow cross-leveling stocks between company hexes. No company should expect to be totally self-sufficient, but everything that needs to be hauled in… needs to be hauled in.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
 
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