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EE v8 TEST SERVER Release Notes

Brighthaven Leader
I was talking about TEO's Hexes if we upgrade our holdings.

I agree those holdings can be paid for, but if you upgrade anything past 1, then you start to have to move larger and larger amounts of resources.

I realize that, but again, its a large amount of work, when the intention is to have mules/carts. Its going to be a lot of extra work for the next several iterations until we get those tools. Do you think the people starting the game in OE are going to face the same problems we are now? Probably not. You can plan to make your outposts/holding combos subpar for less work NOW, but in the near feature the decisions you made based on not having certain tools will change once you have them.
Brighthaven is a Neutral Good settlement focused on defending its citizens and its allies from negative fringe based PvP (Player Killing and Griefing) while striving to become a large and shining beacon for Good. Whether you wish to benefit from this protection or you love PvP and wish to assist in providing this protection, Brighthaven aims to be the home and support center for you!
Quijenoth Starkiller
Oh I understand - but perhaps you are not getting the concept of the game mechanics.

Running a settlement is a community effort. You have 418 members in Brighthaven. 4900 resources over 418 members is 11 resources per member. If only 20% actually did help that's roughly 60 resources each member moved per week which is only 3-6 trips baring normal encumbrance levels.

Now that's assuming all members are active and you have 20% average weekly play cycle. I know that's not the case.

You have far more influence than your active players can support and you have built too many holdings and outposts for your settlement and player base to maintain - that's not the design concepts fault - its partly due to lack of information and foresight of what the costs of these settlements will incur. I imagine if you have 70+ holdings/outposts you don't have much influence left unspent for feuds or upgrades.
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Duffy Swiftshadow
You realize you're arguing for incomplete and broken mechanics as a justification right? None of this is intended to stay even in the nearish future. Sooooo what we're complaining about is that it's misleading mechanics that are gonna have detrimental effects on the playerbase for however long they exist, but are going away eventually anyways. We're arguing that this is not something that should be released in an incomplete state due to the side effects.
Bringslite
Spot on.

Escalations were already becoming a tedious activity that felt like a real "Chore". There was a noticeable drop off of regular players. We all got pretty burned out spending as much as an hour + per day (each player) to keep them controlled. That improved with Victory Markers until the novelty wore off.

It looks like that is being addressed, so… awesome!

I think that we all (or maybe most) were comfortable with the idea of having to move bulk from the holdings to the settlement. That even makes far range holdings a meaningful choice. Having to also move bulk between holdings is… well it's not going to go over well in the long run. Not even with extra carrying capacity, eventually. It is too "granular" of a maintenance task, unless the capacity is enormous.

When you are an active settlement leader, you get a good handle on what your membership will put up with as far as "day to day" stuff goes. The escalations are already burning players out. This, so far, is a universal feeling with a vast majority of the other players and leaders that I have chatted with.

Even diehard supporters are dwindling or should I say "taking a break"? That leaves less people to help with the "day to day", followed by more work for those sticking it out, which leads to more Diehards "taking a break". Great if they maintain their subscriptions. Terrible as the game becomes a wasteland of empty settlements and disabled holdings.

Consider this:

A system that still requires the proposed bulk upkeep but with an option to pay NPCs coin for the work could be another coin sink and fix the tedious junk very well. And/or an option to pay player groups to do the lifting. Give them deposit only access. Open up another niche for small groups to have jobs that pay good coin.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Brighthaven Leader
I am saying that were spending so much time working on escalations, which seem like a chore, and now there is another chore. It doesn't matter how many people we have (we don't have 70 holdings, thats for sure) what matters is getting people who are willing to do more work. This is exactly what this is, work, a chore, on top of what were already having to do. On top of everything else, we have to deal with Ogg, which no matter how many times we kill it spawns back and reinforces the surrounding hexes that don't stay orphaned more than hours….
Brighthaven is a Neutral Good settlement focused on defending its citizens and its allies from negative fringe based PvP (Player Killing and Griefing) while striving to become a large and shining beacon for Good. Whether you wish to benefit from this protection or you love PvP and wish to assist in providing this protection, Brighthaven aims to be the home and support center for you!
Ryan Dancey
Added to the Release Notes:

If a Holding does not have the necessary bulk resources to meet its upkeep it will consume any other Bulk Resources in the Company Secure Vault at a ratio of 4 other resources to 1 needed resource.
Doc
Running a settlement is a community effort. You have 418 members in Brighthaven.

Emphasis mine.

Do you actually believe those company counts reflect the true numbers ie. status quo right now?

Obviously, the game is being designed with the presumption of larger player numbers - so the mechanics would seem to be built around those expected figures. That amount of players does not exist now. So being in a position to have to do the work of 300 players when you probably only have 80 is probably pretty rough.

I'm thinking everybody feeling overwhelmed should stop running so many holdings and outposts until bulk transport is in place. Since settlements don't consume bulk resources at the moment, is it really necessary to go buck wild with holdings placements? Is this a self-inflicted problem?

Is there a mechanism by which you can tear down a holding and get the building kit back? If so, maybe that route should seriously be considered…
Duffy Swiftshadow
You can't Doc, it destroys them. We've put up exactly what we expected to need and did it as fast as we could to give us a bit of a buffer in case the numbers change or we need to quickly trade for off type materials. The idea being that waiting would only 'hurt' as we had assumed the mechanics would make sense when they were fully introduced.

@Ryan

Was that just missing or was that just added in response to us?

If the latter that's not gonna have any benefit right now when most hexes won't be able to produce more than 20 a day of whatever their best rating is. That also brings up an interesting question, will it try to partially consume whatever it can for upkeep or only if the correct amount is present? So if day one it's only got 5 will it skip it, but on day 2 there is 10 and it reactivates the holding?
Bringslite
Ryan Dancey
Added to the Release Notes:

If a Holding does not have the necessary bulk resources to meet its upkeep it will consume any other Bulk Resources in the Company Secure Vault at a ratio of 4 other resources to 1 needed resource.

This is, at least, an option. will have to wait until our Lord of the Exchequer reviews it and crunches the numbers.

Can we get facts on whether a disabled holding (deposit only) still gathers in bulk goods and whether we can access them later with a single deposit of one day's upkeep? Seems very strange, but it was suggested back up there somewhere. Or maybe I extrapolated it from Q's post.

Also, is there a source of solid info on the whole placement of holdings and outposts, placing them first at +0 to +5? Specifically:
1. The initial "plus" is the potential of that building but it starts as +0 regardless of the initial quality?

2. When we want to upgrade, we need to place a new kit down "over" it that is one "+" higher than the currently standing building and that can only bump the quality up by one per day? That looks like we would have to build a +X (desired end goal) and another kit for each plus above +0. Is that right?

3. Can we skip that by tearing down what is there and placing a "+X" (desired end goal) the next day (when mechanics are in) or do we have to start with a "+end goal" or a "+ end goal" minus possible upgrades. like a +3 so that we can go to +5 if we want?

4. Can we get a clear picture on when the true influence cost for a structure kicks in, how it works as things are upgraded?

My apologies if these have been answered. I would love a pointer to where I can find them, if so.
Thank You.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Ryan Dancey
I am trying to consolidate a lot of info from several internal sources. Because our design documentation lags our implementation sometimes (and the documentation often has descriptions of features as planned but not as actually built), I am verifying certain features either by testing or by asking for clarification about their status.

As I resolve these questions, I update the Release Notes post.
 
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