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EE v8 TEST SERVER Release Notes

Takasi
Ryan can you please address why changes were made to the holding upkeep requirements from 7.2 to 8.x? If someone did as you're asking them to now and planned according to the 7.2 values then can you see how that is being forced into a situation they had no option for opting into?
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Ryan Dancey
The design does not require you to move anything at all. If you put a Holding in a hex that can generate the Bulk Resources it needs from Outposts in that Hex, you need take no action whatsoever. It will happily sit there and "cook" Bulk Resources in peace and provide a Vault.

If you opt in to using Holdings and Outposts that are not mutually reinforcing or if you decide to upgrade a Holding so that it requires Bulk Resources the local Outposts don't produce, then you have choices to make. But you're making choices - you are not forced into those choices.
Since we have been led to expect that we could use holdings to support our training, the option to not upgrade them is a red herring.

I don't think anybody cares about having to pay upkeep for holdings. What we care about is the amount of useless time involved, when you'd indicated recently that you'd probably adjust the weight down until there was a way to move them efficiently. If bulk encumbrance was temporarily adjusted down significantly until bulk movement is in, I predict that the majority of the complaining related to holding upkeep would dry up overnight.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Fanndis Goldbraid
Lee did make bulk resources only weigh 5 instead of the previous 50 units of encumbrance. That should be plenty, so start totin' yer bulk goods!
Duffy Swiftshadow
Just realized that Holdings eating 4x the bulk resources for off type is gonna make ignoring them a total loss. Soooo addendum to my previous plan: we should empty everything that isn't self sufficient before EE8 drops.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Fanndis Goldbraid
Lee did make bulk resources only weigh 5 instead of the previous 50 units of encumbrance. That should be plenty, so start totin' yer bulk goods!
No. They made the bulk resources more discrete, so that instead of 1 50enc unit we'd need 10 5enc units to sustain a holding. The total mass needed to be moved was not decreased.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Tyncale
Duffy Swiftshadow
Just realized that Holdings eating 4x the bulk resources for off type is gonna make ignoring them a total loss. Soooo addendum to my previous plan: we should empty everything that isn't self sufficient before EE8 drops.
Nothing an unused 1000xp Alt in front of the Holding can't solve. smile I mean, he wouldn't go anywhere after he loaded up but still. smile

I would like to add, that because I am too lazy to make a daily trip from the Ore mine to my Trading Post Holding +0(needs 10 Ore daily, but only have Lumberjack Outposts in the Woodland hex that it is placed), that I have decided to tear down Golarions very first Holding(featured in the Golarion Gazette some weeks ago) and will replace this unique Historic Landmark with a common Lumbermill. smile

See what you did there, GW, Unesco will *not* be happy!
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Thod-Theodum
@Ryan
I would like to point out that your 'solutions' are perfectly fine - with hindsight.

Players are up in arms because they
a) either wasted a lot of play time by building holdings / outposts that need tearing down and rebuilding

or

b) are forced to waste a lot of time carrying bulk around the countryside

I timed it - carrying ore down the mountain I rent from Golgotha takes me 20 minutes for 25 bulk ore. During UK election I did this trip 8 times for nearly 3 hours to move 200 ore to our settlement vault. Yes - I listened to the radio while doing this - so wasn't 100% dross. And this number is a pioneer 6 with Ornate Chain Shirt +2, Encumbrance bonus maxed out and using strength spells and go slightly overloaded.

Someone in Heavy Armour carries 2-4 bulk, a non specially trained character 8.

I do understand that this problem goes away. Players might overreact.

But your posts here seem to rather describe the party line (all is fine) instead of showing any form of empathy or understanding. That is unfortunately how I read them and what seems to rile up lots of die-hard fans.

A simple - oh we are sorry - we didn't realize how much extra time it costs would have gone much further to soften the crowds as a 'all is fine and as planned' message.

Just my 2p
Thod/Theodum are the OOC/IC leaders of the Emerald Lodge - a neutral settlement in the center of the mal that tries to the first to explore the Emerald Spire - should that part of the game ever become available. We have a strong in game and out of game relationship with the Pathfinder Society.
We welcome both hard core players as well as casual players with or without tabletop experience. We have a strong group in Europe and are slowly expanding into the US. We are predominately PvE as our neutral political stance means that we tend to use PvP only in self-defence. We are not anti-PVP - but expect limited PvP opportunity with us.
Decius
There is a meaningful choice, either to minimize transportation costs or to trade that cost for something else that you want. If we could get everything we want then there would be meaningful choices to be made.
Duffy Swiftshadow
This also guarantees no significant bulk trade will be going on because 'ideally' everyone will be trying to force their buildings to be self sufficient. Which in most cases means one outpost 'wasted' per holding supplying upkeep (and certain holdings are just not gonna be reasonably usable in some regions due to limited resource types) and the other outpost supplying something to stockpile for later use or eventual trade. Neither of which will be happening until we have mules anyways…which just comes back to the point that this wouldn't be a concern at all if we had mules to make the problem manageable.

An interesting choice would be attempting to capitalize on your region's higher ratings to trade with others or become self-sufficient but have nothing to trade. That's an interesting choice with potential to generate conflict and player interactions. Setting up self sufficient holdings cause you don't have a reasonable option or spending 4 hours a day moving stuff around is a really bad 'choice' that only affects your company and has little to no interaction with others. Hell, the best raiding tactic would be to pull stuff from your target's outpost and just destroy it, forget taking it back home.
Ryan Dancey
I've posted an update to Bulk Resource weights.
 
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