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Why PFO Matters

Midnight
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
You are a Troll
Maybe making every new account a DT account would give new players more incentive to stick it out? Getting to try different things on two different toons both earning XP would go a long way to keeping people long enough to get pulled into a settlement and more deeply connected.

0/ <— Gots my vote. smile Especially as an easy way to add value to a subscription and double the things that a player can really explore in a short period of time.

My guess is that new players will have to receive bargains that will make me and some other vets feel ripped off. I already feel ripped off for the $100 starting cost on each of my accounts after they allowed players to simply subscribe with no starting cost.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Flari-Merchant
Midnight
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
You are a Troll
Maybe making every new account a DT account would give new players more incentive to stick it out? Getting to try different things on two different toons both earning XP would go a long way to keeping people long enough to get pulled into a settlement and more deeply connected.

0/ <— Gots my vote. smile Especially as an easy way to add value to a subscription and double the things that a player can really explore in a short period of time.

My guess is that new players will have to receive bargains that will make me and some other vets feel ripped off. I already feel ripped off for the $100 starting cost on each of my accounts after they allowed players to simply subscribe with no starting cost.

You believe that starting the entire game over after almost 3 years of progress might be a good idea but would feel ripped off if new players were to have an extra character earning xp?
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Midnight
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
Midnight
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
You are a Troll
Maybe making every new account a DT account would give new players more incentive to stick it out? Getting to try different things on two different toons both earning XP would go a long way to keeping people long enough to get pulled into a settlement and more deeply connected.

0/ <— Gots my vote. smile Especially as an easy way to add value to a subscription and double the things that a player can really explore in a short period of time.

My guess is that new players will have to receive bargains that will make me and some other vets feel ripped off. I already feel ripped off for the $100 starting cost on each of my accounts after they allowed players to simply subscribe with no starting cost.

You believe that starting the entire game over after almost 3 years of progress might be a good idea but would feel ripped off if new players were to have an extra character earning xp?

That isn't an accurate portrayal of my view.

a) I already feel ripped off for the reason I listed: "box cost".

b) I didn't say starting over is a good idea, I am just skeptical that game consumers want to start behind as our serfs. It would be fairer to say that I feel the smart move would have been to never offer to let us keep xp into Open Release. However, such promises are a big part of why I (and many of us?) spent so much money.

c) a free DT is unlikely to be enough to lure people into starting years behind, thus my guess that they will have to offer enough OTHER bargains that it will make me feel ripped off, before they can acquire enough players to make the game sustainable.

d) since none of my accounts is a DT, should I get free DTs, too?
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Flari-Merchant
Midnight
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
Midnight
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
You are a Troll
Maybe making every new account a DT account would give new players more incentive to stick it out? Getting to try different things on two different toons both earning XP would go a long way to keeping people long enough to get pulled into a settlement and more deeply connected.

0/ <— Gots my vote. smile Especially as an easy way to add value to a subscription and double the things that a player can really explore in a short period of time.

My guess is that new players will have to receive bargains that will make me and some other vets feel ripped off. I already feel ripped off for the $100 starting cost on each of my accounts after they allowed players to simply subscribe with no starting cost.

You believe that starting the entire game over after almost 3 years of progress might be a good idea but would feel ripped off if new players were to have an extra character earning xp?

That isn't an accurate portrayal of my view.

a) I already feel ripped off for the reason I listed: "box cost".

b) I didn't say starting over is a good idea, I am just skeptical that game consumers want to start behind as our serfs. It would be fairer to say that I feel the smart move would have been to never offer to let us keep xp into Open Release. However, such promises are a big part of why I (and many of us?) spent so much money.

c) a free DT is unlikely to be enough to lure people into starting years behind, thus my guess that they will have to offer enough OTHER bargains that it will make me feel ripped off, before they can acquire enough players to make the game sustainable.

d) since none of my accounts is a DT, should I get free DTs, too?
My apologies for getting your meaning wrong. Thanks for clarifying.

d) absolutely!

You do, though, feel like our headstart will be a critical handicap for attracting new players. Do you think that wil happen to Albion Online? in a year?
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Midnight
I don't think new players who missed retail launch are a sizable enough community to matter in most MMOs. Many MMOs make up for the late start by making it easier for beginners to level and achieve things as the years go by.

I don't think we can find a comparable situation where people SUBSCRIBED for years to a beta, before retail release, and had been paying for that head start not to be erased at retail release. The press and gaming community comments for PFO offering that scheme have been horrid, despite those of us here buying into that scheme.

Does anyone seriously think 2018's gaming community will approve of a 3 year head start more than 2015's gaming community approved of the idea of a 1 year head start??
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Edam
In terms of the "burn it all down and start again" approach, that is what Wizards did with 4th Edition deciding that the potential new churn market they were aiming for more than outweighed the loss of the existing player-base and so they changed settings, rules, pretty much everything to target the new player-base that the marketing guys had zeroed in on and gave no consideration to existing players at all. It did not go well for them. Admittedly Games Workshop adopted a similar approach with their Warhammer products in the early 2000's and it worked out, but their target market is 12 year olds with rich parents.

In terms of current players you are naturally going to get more calls for a wipe from players who have less time invested, whose preferred playstyle is not well currently catered for (banditry and pvp for example), who have all sorts of "ideas" they feel have been ignored or whose settlements/builds are less successful - but that is all par for the course.

Analysing the current player base:
  • Players who have played a lot with multiple active accounts may be disgruntled but have actually got there moneys worth
  • Players who have subbed multiple accounts and never played gaining XP for "when all the people come" or waiting for a particular class like druid to be available will be extremely dissed and probably demanding refunds
  • Players who committed on the basis that this is not a popular churn game but a longterm commitment where nothing gets wiped will fill somewhat betrayed

Of these the third group are the most significant because a betrayal of trust in order to get a monetary gain may make business sense short-term but long term could have very negative consequences.
Flari-Merchant
Midnight
I don't think new players who missed retail launch are a sizable enough community to matter in most MMOs. Many MMOs make up for the late start by making it easier for beginners to level and achieve things as the years go by.

I don't think we can find a comparable situation where people SUBSCRIBED for years to a beta, before retail release, and had been paying for that head start not to be erased at retail release. The press and gaming community comments for PFO offering that scheme have been horrid, despite those of us here buying into that scheme.

Does anyone seriously think 2018's gaming community will approve of a 3 year head start more than 2015's gaming community approved of the idea of a 1 year head start??

I have seen forums and things about games where there are complaints from the type of player that doesn't like to start even a single day behind anyone else. Those types of complaints are mostly seen concerning upcoming games where there is a "head start" reward in a kickstarter, sometimes just randomly in established ongoing games such as EVE online. I have seen a few instances back when this game was more often reviewed.

Compared to the mass of other grousing it has been minor and of low percentage. Yet I can't whip out links and a survey, as I'm sure you can't either, to prove or disprove whether that issue is really a significant THING.

When PfO does go to OE, I have suggestedover and over that they have (in place) clear feasible mechanics for new players and hopefully the groups they form to have a new area of the map available and a way to build a spot for themselves. I do agree that a fantasy sandbox somewhat about territory control and establishment isn't as attractive if all the territory is already established and controlled by 3+ year veteran organizations…

If, that is, it really is an important factor….
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
Midnight
Edam
In terms of current players you are naturally going to get more calls for a wipe from players who have less time invested, whose preferred playstyle is not well currently catered for (banditry and pvp for example), who have all sorts of "ideas" they feel have been ignored or whose settlements/builds are less successful - but that is all par for the course.

If you are trying to describe me, I want to make clear that I don't advocate a wipe. Barring full financial recompense, a wipe would be a criminal act of fraud against hundreds of victims, some in dollar amounts that would be felonies. I just consider the no-wipe promise to have been a bad idea, in hindsight, after watching the press and gaming community's reaction.

Also, suggesting PFO doesn't cater to PvP strikes me as wildly silly. If PFO has a PvP problem, it is that it caters to PvP TOO much, considering the mostly tabletop players that subscribed. If it ever achieves the first M in MMO, it should be paradise for PvP-centric players.

The reason my only subscribed character is a gatherer is because the current community is a builder community. If the masses show up, the community could change immensely, though the aristocracy might still manage to maintain the status quo through having a stranglehold on training, exacerbated by a 3 year head start. We'll see.

May we all live in interesting times.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Midnight
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
Compared to the mass of other grousing it has been minor and of low percentage. Yet I can't whip out links and a survey, as I'm sure you can't either, to prove or disprove whether that issue is really a significant THING.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Pathfinder+Online+reviews&ie=&oe=
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Flari-Merchant
Midnight
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
Compared to the mass of other grousing it has been minor and of low percentage. Yet I can't whip out links and a survey, as I'm sure you can't either, to prove or disprove whether that issue is really a significant THING.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Pathfinder+Online+reviews&ie=&oe=
How far do I have to dig into a link to more links(and so on) to find conclusive evidence that PfO can't reach any level of success because some players have 3 years headstart in play? This isn't anything but old hat and some new hat but nothing to do with the subject.
"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com
 
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