Why PFO Matters

Midnight 11.16.2017 17:26
	Bringslite-Dominion Soldier Midnight If Porsche had never released a production vehicle, and Ford had stolen Porsche's concept car designs to actually produce retail sales, then I would also suggest that it is "very educational to see how those ideas actually work". That has a wise ring to it, Sir Midnight. I will have to consider that. I am just concerned that I will never be able to catch up to the Day 1 crowd and forever be behind. Oh, I'm not trying to talk anyone into making it their go-to game (even though it became mine). But a test drive and talking to folks who play it would be good for most of us. I'd be happy to send you a free trial. It costs me a buck or two worth of gold, so only say yes if you'll actually download it and try it. As far as catching up, even the priciest gear REQUIRES low tier gathering materials, so all low level gathering time is rewarded. Furthermore, the game allows us to enchant combat gear to be usable by low levels while hitting as hard as higher levels. Those mats are rarer and cost more, but in 12 hours or less of combat grinding you could be competent enough to wear t4+2 gear that is equivalent to the t6 that most vets where. And I can afford to equip you in T4+2. You can also go to the website, find guilds and ask them about the game on their websites and discord for free. To be clear, it isn't essential for anyone here, I just think it would be educational, or satisfy one's curiosity to see many of our concepts actually in use by a massive population. If you can't be bothered, the tldr is… I think many of our ideas got validated, there. He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper. -Edmund Burke Quote

Midnight 11.16.2017 17:26

Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
Midnight
If Porsche had never released a production vehicle, and Ford had stolen Porsche's concept car designs to actually produce retail sales, then I would also suggest that it is "very educational to see how those ideas actually work".
That has a wise ring to it, Sir Midnight. I will have to consider that. I am just concerned that I will never be able to catch up to the Day 1 crowd and forever be behind.

Oh, I'm not trying to talk anyone into making it their go-to game (even though it became mine). But a test drive and talking to folks who play it would be good for most of us.

I'd be happy to send you a free trial. It costs me a buck or two worth of gold, so only say yes if you'll actually download it and try it.

As far as catching up, even the priciest gear REQUIRES low tier gathering materials, so all low level gathering time is rewarded. Furthermore, the game allows us to enchant combat gear to be usable by low levels while hitting as hard as higher levels. Those mats are rarer and cost more, but in 12 hours or less of combat grinding you could be competent enough to wear t4+2 gear that is equivalent to the t6 that most vets where. And I can afford to equip you in T4+2.

You can also go to the website, find guilds and ask them about the game on their websites and discord for free.

To be clear, it isn't essential for anyone here, I just think it would be educational, or satisfy one's curiosity to see many of our concepts actually in use by a massive population.

If you can't be bothered, the tldr is… I think many of our ideas got validated, there.

He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke

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Huran 11.17.2017 08:47
	Hobson Fiffledown (TL;DR - Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah. Blah blah blah. Blah blah.) IIRC, the only complete assurance GW gave regarding wipes was that XP would never be reset. That leaves some other big options open, but I don't think any of that is really necessary. I would think that GW could get 2-5k new people into the game over the first 2-3 months of OE (paizo/pathfinder/PFS/newspacegame swag incentives, bundles with new and existing products, free trials…please no Inf contribution until subbed, etc). All things considered, I think GW will be in a good position to retain new players by the time OE rolls around. Dropping the monthly to $9.99 (because…c'mon, $15?) and figuring out $5 per other additional xp line, imho, would be something to take a look at. This does spark an idea for me though. $5 per character with a 3 character per account cap and each character can train at the same time would be something I could be on board with. Of course this might offend some DT holders, but they could still count the DT as one character for the both of them and keep the 3 character cap (DT would basically pay $10 for a full 3 character account). "Circles of power, gathered by EARTH, welcomed by GOLD, in strife and in mirth. Focused by CRYSTAL, guided by LIGHT, showing the way, by day and by night. wrought in IRON, strengthened by STEEL, together we stand, in wrack and in weal. Hidden in SHADOW, explored by WOOD, we circle together, for the greater good." –Maxikyd– http://www.kotcguild.com/ Quote

Huran 11.17.2017 08:47

Hobson Fiffledown
(TL;DR - Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah. Blah blah blah. Blah blah.)

IIRC, the only complete assurance GW gave regarding wipes was that XP would never be reset. That leaves some other big options open, but I don't think any of that is really necessary. I would think that GW could get 2-5k new people into the game over the first 2-3 months of OE (paizo/pathfinder/PFS/newspacegame swag incentives, bundles with new and existing products, free trials…please no Inf contribution until subbed, etc). All things considered, I think GW will be in a good position to retain new players by the time OE rolls around. Dropping the monthly to $9.99 (because…c'mon, $15?) and figuring out $5 per other additional xp line, imho, would be something to take a look at.

This does spark an idea for me though. $5 per character with a 3 character per account cap and each character can train at the same time would be something I could be on board with. Of course this might offend some DT holders, but they could still count the DT as one character for the both of them and keep the 3 character cap (DT would basically pay $10 for a full 3 character account).

"Circles of power, gathered by EARTH, welcomed by GOLD, in strife and in mirth. Focused by CRYSTAL, guided by LIGHT, showing the way, by day and by night. wrought in IRON, strengthened by STEEL, together we stand, in wrack and in weal. Hidden in SHADOW, explored by WOOD, we circle together, for the greater good." –Maxikyd– http://www.kotcguild.com/

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Flari-Merchant 11.17.2017 09:07
	Midnight Bringslite-Dominion Soldier Midnight If Porsche had never released a production vehicle, and Ford had stolen Porsche's concept car designs to actually produce retail sales, then I would also suggest that it is "very educational to see how those ideas actually work". That has a wise ring to it, Sir Midnight. I will have to consider that. I am just concerned that I will never be able to catch up to the Day 1 crowd and forever be behind. Oh, I'm not trying to talk anyone into making it their go-to game (even though it became mine). But a test drive and talking to folks who play it would be good for most of us. I'd be happy to send you a free trial. It costs me a buck or two worth of gold, so only say yes if you'll actually download it and try it. As far as catching up, even the priciest gear REQUIRES low tier gathering materials, so all low level gathering time is rewarded. Furthermore, the game allows us to enchant combat gear to be usable by low levels while hitting as hard as higher levels. Those mats are rarer and cost more, but in 12 hours or less of combat grinding you could be competent enough to wear t4+2 gear that is equivalent to the t6 that most vets where. And I can afford to equip you in T4+2. You can also go to the website, find guilds and ask them about the game on their websites and discord for free. To be clear, it isn't essential for anyone here, I just think it would be educational, or satisfy one's curiosity to see many of our concepts actually in use by a massive population. If you can't be bothered, the tldr is… I think many of our ideas got validated, there. More of a time issue for me than anything else ATM but a generous offer, none-the-less, and probably would be educational. I did take a brake some months ago and tried ESO which I found very charming although, for some reason despite all the bells and whistles, it didn't scratch that itch. "I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!" uotopia@msn.com Quote

Flari-Merchant 11.17.2017 09:07

Midnight
Bringslite-Dominion Soldier
Midnight
If Porsche had never released a production vehicle, and Ford had stolen Porsche's concept car designs to actually produce retail sales, then I would also suggest that it is "very educational to see how those ideas actually work".
That has a wise ring to it, Sir Midnight. I will have to consider that. I am just concerned that I will never be able to catch up to the Day 1 crowd and forever be behind.

Oh, I'm not trying to talk anyone into making it their go-to game (even though it became mine). But a test drive and talking to folks who play it would be good for most of us.

I'd be happy to send you a free trial. It costs me a buck or two worth of gold, so only say yes if you'll actually download it and try it.

As far as catching up, even the priciest gear REQUIRES low tier gathering materials, so all low level gathering time is rewarded. Furthermore, the game allows us to enchant combat gear to be usable by low levels while hitting as hard as higher levels. Those mats are rarer and cost more, but in 12 hours or less of combat grinding you could be competent enough to wear t4+2 gear that is equivalent to the t6 that most vets where. And I can afford to equip you in T4+2.

You can also go to the website, find guilds and ask them about the game on their websites and discord for free.

To be clear, it isn't essential for anyone here, I just think it would be educational, or satisfy one's curiosity to see many of our concepts actually in use by a massive population.

If you can't be bothered, the tldr is… I think many of our ideas got validated, there.

More of a time issue for me than anything else ATM but a generous offer, none-the-less, and probably would be educational. I did take a brake some months ago and tried ESO which I found very charming although, for some reason despite all the bells and whistles, it didn't scratch that itch.

"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com

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Decius 11.17.2017 09:08
	Midnight As far as catching up, even the priciest gear REQUIRES low tier gathering materials, so all low level gathering time is rewarded. Furthermore, the game allows us to enchant combat gear to be usable by low levels while hitting as hard as higher levels. Those mats are rarer and cost more, but in 12 hours or less of combat grinding you could be competent enough to wear t4+2 gear that is equivalent to the t6 that most vets where. And I can afford to equip you in T4+2. 4.2 being cheaper than 6.0 is one of the exploitable inefficiencies, if it's still strictly better as equipment (equal in stats and easier to use). The actual reason it isn't is because people working on that skill level of armor need to produce a lot of it, and they dump the extra onto the market to try to get a fraction of their costs back. People doing higher levels of armor are pretty much all members of groups that can use or at least store their work products, so they sell much less of what they make. Trading 6.0 gear for 4.2 materials from people who can wear 6 gear makes them happy, since they think that they got a good deal, and the 4.2 materials go into the pipeline of the people making 5.2 and 6.2 gear, who are happier to have it than the 6.0 crap that they are making to skill up. There's enough arbitrage in that trade to cover an occasional oxload of stuff being lost. Quote

Decius 11.17.2017 09:08

Midnight
As far as catching up, even the priciest gear REQUIRES low tier gathering materials, so all low level gathering time is rewarded. Furthermore, the game allows us to enchant combat gear to be usable by low levels while hitting as hard as higher levels. Those mats are rarer and cost more, but in 12 hours or less of combat grinding you could be competent enough to wear t4+2 gear that is equivalent to the t6 that most vets where. And I can afford to equip you in T4+2.

4.2 being cheaper than 6.0 is one of the exploitable inefficiencies, if it's still strictly better as equipment (equal in stats and easier to use). The actual reason it isn't is because people working on that skill level of armor need to produce a lot of it, and they dump the extra onto the market to try to get a fraction of their costs back. People doing higher levels of armor are pretty much all members of groups that can use or at least store their work products, so they sell much less of what they make.

Trading 6.0 gear for 4.2 materials from people who can wear 6 gear makes them happy, since they think that they got a good deal, and the 4.2 materials go into the pipeline of the people making 5.2 and 6.2 gear, who are happier to have it than the 6.0 crap that they are making to skill up. There's enough arbitrage in that trade to cover an occasional oxload of stuff being lost.

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Flari-Merchant 11.17.2017 09:29
	Having low tier materials useful throughout the crafting trees is a really smart move and is also present in Pathfinder Online. In fact, it is nice that more and more often this is becoming more true for previously less "desirable" or "formerly joked about" materials. "I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!" uotopia@msn.com Quote

Flari-Merchant 11.17.2017 09:29

Having low tier materials useful throughout the crafting trees is a really smart move and is also present in Pathfinder Online. In fact, it is nice that more and more often this is becoming more true for previously less "desirable" or "formerly joked about" materials.

"I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!"
uotopia@msn.com

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Maxen 11.17.2017 11:15
	Huran Hobson Fiffledown (TL;DR - Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah. Blah blah blah. Blah blah.) This does spark an idea for me though. $5 per character with a 3 character per account cap and each character can train at the same time would be something I could be on board with. Of course this might offend some DT holders, but they could still count the DT as one character for the both of them and keep the 3 character cap (DT would basically pay $10 for a full 3 character account). As a day one DT account holder (and the purchaser of a number of DT accounts since then), I would take no offense whatsoever to a change to the accounts that would allow me to earn XP on all three character slots for a reasonable fee. Making a $5/$10/$15 tiered subscription for 1/2/3 XP earning characters wouldn’t be a bad approach, IMO. GW is losing nothing on current subs, and may even pick up more for those who could budget a $5 or $10 subscription. Quote

Maxen 11.17.2017 11:15

Huran
Hobson Fiffledown
(TL;DR - Blah blah blah blah. Blah blah. Blah blah blah. Blah blah.)

This does spark an idea for me though. $5 per character with a 3 character per account cap and each character can train at the same time would be something I could be on board with. Of course this might offend some DT holders, but they could still count the DT as one character for the both of them and keep the 3 character cap (DT would basically pay $10 for a full 3 character account).

As a day one DT account holder (and the purchaser of a number of DT accounts since then), I would take no offense whatsoever to a change to the accounts that would allow me to earn XP on all three character slots for a reasonable fee. Making a $5/$10/$15 tiered subscription for 1/2/3 XP earning characters wouldn’t be a bad approach, IMO. GW is losing nothing on current subs, and may even pick up more for those who could budget a $5 or $10 subscription.

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Mistwalker 11.17.2017 12:25
	I too am a day one DT account holder (yes, I have several). Like Maxen, I wouldn't have an object to Paizo opening up the accounts to allow non-DT accounts to gain XP on 2 or 3 character slots. I like the suggestion that Huran made up forum. Quote

Flari-Merchant 11.17.2017 12:33
	Same. I have gotten more than a fair exchange for my DT accounts already. The real goal here is that PfO stays around long enough and succeeds enough to get better and better. I will cheer if more could afford to play and do. "I buy Azoth for 5sp/ea. I will trade Enchanting or other rare materials/anything for Azoth. Contact me if interested. GET YOUR COIN EASY!" uotopia@msn.com Quote

Hobson Fiffledown 11.17.2017 23:58
	I wouldn't try and push is lower than $9.99 for the basic account (3 slots, one xp stream). From there, I'd suggest allowing up to two additional xp streams at $5 each per month. You cant price 5/10/15 because if you're going to spend $15, there's no reason to not have three $5 accounts and six more character slots. There's still a little bit of that going on in the price setup I'm talking about, but you'd have to pay more for those alts. And $5 is too cheap. OK…how's $9.95 sound? This space for rent. Quote

Hobson Fiffledown 11.17.2017 23:58

I wouldn't try and push is lower than $9.99 for the basic account (3 slots, one xp stream). From there, I'd suggest allowing up to two additional xp streams at $5 each per month. You cant price 5/10/15 because if you're going to spend $15, there's no reason to not have three $5 accounts and six more character slots. There's still a little bit of that going on in the price setup I'm talking about, but you'd have to pay more for those alts. And $5 is too cheap. OK…how's $9.95 sound? smile

This space for rent.

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Paddy Fitzpatrick 11.18.2017 00:51
	Hobson Fiffledown I wouldn't try and push is lower than $9.99 for the basic account (3 slots, one xp stream). From there, I'd suggest allowing up to two additional xp streams at $5 each per month. You cant price 5/10/15 because if you're going to spend $15, there's no reason to not have three $5 accounts and six more character slots. There's still a little bit of that going on in the price setup I'm talking about, but you'd have to pay more for those alts. And $5 is too cheap. OK…how's $9.95 sound? Yeah…$9.99 is still pushing it. The main reason for going lower than that for a basic account is that for $15 for a basic account you are charging prices similar to WoW. If you are going to charge like WoW for a basic account, players are going to expect more out of the basic account. I think the $5/$10/$15 is best. At least for $15 you get 3 accounts with xp. With a cheap $5 for a basic one, you get the best thing which is more players wanting to keep subscribing. That's what this game needs, more people to stick around, and $15 a month for a basic account won't do it. You want to make it really cheap because we want to keep our player base and the game isn't in a state at this time to charge more than that for a basic one character earning xp account. Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors! Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law. Find us on PFO Discord Quote

Paddy Fitzpatrick 11.18.2017 00:51

Hobson Fiffledown
I wouldn't try and push is lower than $9.99 for the basic account (3 slots, one xp stream). From there, I'd suggest allowing up to two additional xp streams at $5 each per month. You cant price 5/10/15 because if you're going to spend $15, there's no reason to not have three $5 accounts and six more character slots. There's still a little bit of that going on in the price setup I'm talking about, but you'd have to pay more for those alts. And $5 is too cheap. OK…how's $9.95 sound?

Yeah…$9.99 is still pushing it. The main reason for going lower than that for a basic account is that for $15 for a basic account you are charging prices similar to WoW. If you are going to charge like WoW for a basic account, players are going to expect more out of the basic account.

I think the $5/$10/$15 is best. At least for $15 you get 3 accounts with xp. With a cheap $5 for a basic one, you get the best thing which is more players wanting to keep subscribing. That's what this game needs, more people to stick around, and $15 a month for a basic account won't do it. You want to make it really cheap because we want to keep our player base and the game isn't in a state at this time to charge more than that for a basic one character earning xp account.

Paddy Fitzpatrick - Rí Ruírec of Fianna, roaming bands of noble warriors!
Member of the Kathalpas Coalition and home of bandits, privateers, and anyone looking to get away from the shackles of law.
Find us on PFO Discord

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