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Holdings and Training

Nihimon
Ryan Dancey
When we get the tech built so that the only Feats your character will be able to use are those supported by your Settlement…

Ryan, can you clear something up? I'm hearing reports that y'all made an announcement at PaizoCon to the effect that all Settlements would support everything. It sounded wrong to me, but I was going to be patient and wait on the blog. Reading this from you today makes me think the person misunderstood. Could you maybe just give us an executive summary of any major changes to Support?
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Edam
Nihimon
Ryan Dancey
When we get the tech built so that the only Feats your character will be able to use are those supported by your Settlement…

Ryan, can you clear something up? I'm hearing reports that y'all made an announcement at PaizoCon to the effect that all Settlements would support everything. It sounded wrong to me, but I was going to be patient and wait on the blog. Reading this from you today makes me think the person misunderstood. Could you maybe just give us an executive summary of any major changes to Support?

Indeed, I also heard the same thing. It would be good to clarify.

In particular it caused quite a bit of concern among our clerics as people have entirely rebuilt clerics on the basis of Deity feats being locked into Deities your settlement can support based on its alignment. Removing the settlement support mechanism seemed like it would throw the whole Deity choice completely open.
Tagnar
Thanks for all of the feedback smile
Tagnar, Ironbreaker of Forgeholm
High Priest of Abadar
Ryan Dancey
There's a design-in-progress (which means it's not been really publicly discussed yet) to enable Settlements to support everything their members have trained. I think there's a lot of moving pieces that have to be debated and discussed before that design becomes the design-in-fact, but that is the direction we're going.

Basically we don't want to raise barriers for friends to play with friends. We want to attack the problem of people who go murderhobo by creating incentives for Settlements to boot them, and by making it impossible for Murderhobo Settlements to develop enough to support advanced ranks of Feats. But if everyone is playing well together we don't want you to have to choose who you play with.
Edam
Ryan Dancey
There's a design-in-progress (which means it's not been really publicly discussed yet) to enable Settlements to support everything their members have trained. I think there's a lot of moving pieces that have to be debated and discussed before that design becomes the design-in-fact, but that is the direction we're going.

Basically we don't want to raise barriers for friends to play with friends. We want to attack the problem of people who go murderhobo by creating incentives for Settlements to boot them, and by making it impossible for Murderhobo Settlements to develop enough to support advanced ranks of Feats. But if everyone is playing well together we don't want you to have to choose who you play with.

Is this likely mean we will be able to do stuff like train elsewhere and use feats from an Evil Deity and still be a member of a Good aligned settlement (or visa versa) ?
Nihimon
Ryan Dancey
… enable Settlements to support everything their members have trained.

… making it impossible for Murderhobo Settlements to develop enough to support advanced ranks of Feats.

When I first heard the idea, I thought it would be great if Settlements simply supported a certain Level, and therefore automatically supported any trained Feats available at that Level. It's simple and seems like it would be effective.

I'm eager to hear more smile
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Quijenoth Starkiller
Ryan Dancey
When we get the tech built so that the only Feats your character will be able to use are those supported by your Settlement, you might want to use Holdings to support some feats at lower levels that you don't want to pay the costs to support directly via the Settlement.

Or you might want the upgraded refinery options.

Or you might be upgrading the Holding on the way towards letting it provide support better than an NPC Settlement.

Or there might be implications with the unannounced and so-far still in development Holding War feature.

I think the biggest problem is that not all the pieces of the puzzle are present.

It kind of feels like you have given us a steak dinner but only supplied us with a fork to eat it with. The knife will come soonTM …

The problem is, right now, we have a cost for something that isn't complete so people aren't willing to pay the extra cost which is detrimental to the testing that is fundamental to EE.

Perhaps if some temporary value was added to the holdings (like my proposed training levels) people would consider upgrading holdings.

… It would be like offering a spork to eat the steak while waiting on the knife.
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Tyncale
So:
  • Let us say a settlement is level 14, because thats what the leadership can manage in Bulk Goods.
  • The leadership has decided not to put down a Skirmisher Building since they wanted to use their DI (and coin/resources) for other Buildings.
  • A settlement member with Bow attacks up to level 4(no matter where he trained those) will still have access to these attacks since a level 14 settlement supports up to that level of attacks.
  • The buildings that a Settlement puts up are there for trainingpurposes.
  • The idea of pure "support" buildings is abandoned?
  • These training buildings will follow the same progression/level as the Settlement level? Or can they be upgraded differently each? See next statement/question.
  • In order to not prohibit the existance of small but superfocussed settlements, will a Trainingsbuilding that has been upgraded to let us say level 17 also give support up to that level, even though the settlement level is maybe 13?
  • These training buildings offer their training as a *depletable* asset, so settlements have to be carefull who they let train.

Are these statements correct? Trying to get my head around Settlement level, offered Training and supportlevel.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Locke
I suspect that these support comments will be limited with respect to (WRT) cleric roles. THese are the principal rrolses related to alignment (and more roles later)
Lee Hammock
Currently the plan we are a looking at would not be implemented until we get to the full settlement system. We don't want to put time into making an interim system for a situation that won't be sticking around.

The core idea is that if you are in a settlement you have support for all skills to 20th level. If you are not part of a settlement you have 8th level support. Once we have the faction system up and running you can join a faction and flag for PvP as a member of that faction to get support as if you were in a settlement. Our goal is to allow people to play with their friends playing the roles they want while encouraging settlement membership, or at least making yourself available for PvP. We want everyone to have a home address where trouble can find them or some subset of enemies that can hunt them down if they have no home address.

Settlements/characters will be limited in what they can train/slot, so a good settlement cannot train evil deity cleric feats and a good character cannot equip them. Support only building as a concept are going away.

We have some other mechanics in mind long term to encourage settlements to keep their training structures upgraded and functioning, but those are even further out than this system (which again is not coming until the full settlement system at the earliest).

 
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