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PVP is Bullying

Hramel
For most of us, childhood included being bullied. In Pathfinder On-line, bullying is also a big part of the game.

In childhood the bullies would knock us down and steal our lunch money. In PFO the bullies kill us and steal our inventory. In childhood the bullies wouldn’t let us use the bathroom, or would keep us out of the cafeteria. In PFO the bullies kill us just for entering certain hexes or cities. In childhood the bigger stronger kids would use their superior strength to make us hit ourselves. In PFO the bullies have tier two training and gear and attack those with tier one training and gear. In either case the victims don’t stand a chance.
In schools these days bullying is being actively fought. It still happens, of course, but it is no longer tolerated once learned of. In PFO it is an active part of the game, not only tolerated, but accepted and allowed. I for one don’t like bullying in any form. It should not be allowed. It certainly shouldn’t be something I have to pay for.
I have nothing against PVP players fighting each other. If that is what they enjoy, then more power to them. But if I don’t want any part of PVP, and I pay just as much per month as they do, then why am I being forced to be a part. And since I don’t intend to be bullying anyone ever, my character isn’t created with PVP combat in mind, thus making my character one of the victims of bullying that the bullies seem to like so much. This is why I will most likely be leaving the game at the end of the month. Another player driven away by the PVP bullies.

I know that at least one of the reasons that PFO allows PVP combat is because they want player generated content. This is fine in theory, and is certainly cheaper than Goblinworks doing it all, but when the game plan is driving away an entire segment of players, I have to wonder if their game plan is going to be viable in the end. After all, when all the non-PVP players have been driven away, the bullies won’t have any easy targets left and then they too will begin leaving. Who is going to be left?

Not all PVP combat is bullying, however. The fights for control of the towers I have no problem with. The PVP combat is in a set location at a set window of time, and is purely voluntary. Why can’t all PVP combat be like this. Of course the towers are soon to be removed. So much for voluntary PVP combat.
As far as player generated content, I have a couple of suggestions, at least one of which should make the PVP’ers happy, though not the bullies.

1.Why doesn’t Goblinworks take one of the soon to be erased former NPC cities and turn it into a coliseum and some arenas. Any cities that want to run gladiatorial combats can trade off running the arenas. They can have PVP combats as much as they want. They can have combats that are wizard only, cleric only, melee only, tier one only, tier two only, anything goes, etc. Whatever they can come up with. Entry fees can be used for determining prize money for the winners, and the winners can boast to all that they are the best at whatever combat they won. You can even have bleachers for spectators, people to watch the PVP combats, see how they are done, glean some pointers, and perhaps decide if they want to be a part of it or not. The arenas can even be used for classrooms when not being used for fights. And at least one of the arenas should have obstacles that can be placed for when line of sight targeting becomes a part of the game.

2. One of the things PFO is missing currently is the dungeon. I have seen nothing about Goblinworks giving the creation of dungeons to the players, but I say why not? Amongst the players in PFO there must be at least a hundred GM’s. If just ten of them were to create a dungeon, that would greatly increase the PFO content. Goblinworks should make some downloadable software for the creation of dungeons and give that software to its players. Each city that produces a dungeon should get its city training level bumped up by one for each dungeon it creates, this lasting around three months. If they want that training bump to continue, the city would either need to create another dungeon or add another level to an existing dungeon. Within a year there would probably be a dozen dungeons, with minimal work on the part of Goblinworks once the dungeon creation software is created. And for the PVPers out there, maybe the final boss on each level of the dungeon can be run either by the computer, or if there is a willing participant amongst the players of the creating city, run by a human instead. The player would have to work with the boss build rather than one of their own, but the added danger of a player possibly running the big boss would definitely increase the danger level of a dungeon. And for the PVPer, willing participants in PVP combat would be coming to him.
Locke
I suspect you are new to this. THere are many threads on Paizo.com that deal with this {summon Nihimon}. Newbie hunting is no the goal. It can get the player banned with no refund. But PvP against a human is so much more challenging tha the best game AI. From what I have read (and why I am here ) is the focus of PvP is groups, companies yes, but settlements and nations. LOok is what is happening between SE and north of central.

And outposts can not be attacked, yet; and settlement do not need resources, yet. But in a quarter year, one may starve a city by removing resources at the outpost, I expect.

To really work at that level, teams bigger than 6 are needed. Yes that could lead to inflation from PvE. Just limit reward to 6 equivalent. Parties of 12 would individually get 1/2 what a team of 6 now gathers.
Midnight
Midnight is a gatherer with tier 2 in all 4 gathering skills with some gathering skills as high as level 12. She is in tier 1 armor and carries a tier 1 bow. Midnight has never been killed by non-consensual PvPers while gathering. While gathering I've only died in fights I started and fights I could have avoided but chose not to.

It is hard to catch an alert gatherer. Most months, most gatherers go without even being chased.

Of the small minority who do get chased, or even killed, the vast majority of them made a poor life choice by joining a bellicose settlement or powerbloc whose self proclaimed "sheepdogs" conned them into thinking they need protection, while those same sheepdogs keep poking the hornet's nest just to prove to their sheep that it's a dangerous world. All those endangered PvE-ers have to do is move to the parts of the map where there is peace and they are almost completely safe.

Some of the smallest settlements in the game are the safest places to be a PvE-er.

I spent my first 56 days killing people in a one-hex coal field (with my pathetic tier 1 bow). All of them could have escaped me if they had played it smart and the vast majority of folks I saw in that coal field DID escape me. I wanted coal and their presence would have slowed me down. It was only bullying if you consider the evil role playing of being selfish as bullying. I *was* by design, being selfish, and thus victimized people. But I wouldn't call it bullying. It was mere evil self interest in ruthlessly best achieving the rewards of my gathering specialization.

After the Blackwood Glade fiasco I turned off my role playing of evil and have just been gathering like normal players.

That being said, if your settlement or powerbloc is bellicose to mine, my orders seem to be to seek you out and kill you (and I'll usually seek you out with my better equipped combat character). That's not me roleplaying evil, and that isn't anyone being a bully, that seems to simply be my powerbloc's attempt to survive this game.

Some parts of this world are rough places because people aren't getting along. Before entirely leaving the world, I'd suggest trying out another patch of it.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Edam
An insight from EVE about playing in a sandbox game.
Midnight
So much truthiness in a single picture.

Though, really, there's often a blend of build-y-ness for me and dectructiveness for the other guy's build-y-ness.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Hobson Fiffledown
I do like the idea of adding a rep-free fighting arena. GW should rearrange Rotter's Hole and use one of the settlement terraces to build a fighting pit.
This space for rent.
Edam
Hobson Fiffledown
I do like the idea of adding a rep-free fighting arena. GW should rearrange Rotter's Hole and use one of the settlement terraces to build a fighting pit.

lol … we can all stand around and place bets and try and see who is "stealth buffing" the competitor they have bet on. Disputes among spectators could get messy.
Auriga
2. One of the things PFO is missing currently is the dungeon. I have seen nothing about Goblinworks giving the creation of dungeons to the players, but I say why not?

This is actually a massive Technical issue that Goblinworks is working on. One of the Quirks of the Unity Engine is that it does not allow someone to build below the "0" line of the elevation. There are several things that they are considering to try to fix the issue but there are other things that are higher on the priority list such as settlements and getting the players the ability to build their own unique settlements.

As for Arenas, I did bring that question up at Paizocon to Ryan Dancey the CEO. He is a strong believer of not allowing PVP without consequence and having arenas set up like that would be against that concept. If people started doing that sort of pvp there, there would be less open world pvp and cause a different set of problems.
Tagnar
Killing someone in an open world pvp game is not bullying. The best part of the game is the possibility of a chance encounter and not knowing who it will be and how it will go. If there wasn't a possibility of being attacked by a player I would not be interested in the least.

Now if a player griefs you by killing you at a shrine over and over, breaking all your gear that would be equivalent to bullying. Although I know other people have different definitions for griefing.
Tagnar, Ironbreaker of Forgeholm
High Priest of Abadar
Tigari
Video games do not equal real life. Do not try to mix the two.
 
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