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Request from Lee: Escalations Feedback (keepside chat 6/3/15)

Tink says Stab

The PvE in this game doesn't hold my attention for one major reason; I have escaped the Skinner Box and nothing has lured me back in. For a while grinding achievements was my reward for pressing the buttons. For a little bit longer grinding useful recipes was my reward.

Now there is no reward.

I have all the recipes I want. I have all the achievements I can get. I can, generally, get more gold/hour by gathering. The unique drops from PvE suck.

So what would I do to fix this?

Give us more achievements to grind up. I don't much care if I get achievement points for grinding them. I will literally sit there and hit monsters, watching my polearm kill number getting higher and higher. Now that I have hit Polearm Kills 10, I can't grind that meaningless number.

Give us useful unique PvE drops. Tyncale has suggested something interesting with his enchanting shard system. I just want to hit monsters and actually be excited when something drops. Diablo 3 is a perfect example of this in action.

When D3 first launched, loot was plentiful, but the vast majority of it was trash. You were expected to sell all that trash for gold. You also got plenty of loot that your class or build might not use. You were expected to sell all that for gold as well. Then you use all that gold to buy something you actually want.

Everybody hated it. You spent hours and hours grinding for useless items just so you might be able to sell it on the market and get a small step closer to a useful item. Then they changed it so that the things that dropped were actually useful. There was much rejoicing!

PFO is currently in the same state D3 was on release. All the loot is boring. Some of the loot is useful to other people. You take that loot, sell it to those people, and buy actually useful things. As a PvP focused character I have no reason to do PvE. Nothing good drops for me. Why would I grind out monsters if I know I'm not going to get anything useful for me.

TL;DR, add loot that combat characters actually want, not just loot that combat characters can sell to crafters to get loot that they actually want.
Tink quivers in sheer euphoria as the dank memes course through his fedora
Duffy Swiftshadow
That kinda shatters the economy when you cut crafting out of it as the main source of gear. I also find it interesting that aside from cleanup and sometimes when we need markers the primary thing driving us is new recipes to give to our crafting buddies, that motivation is pretty decent, but it will peter out once we reach recipe saturation. However that's a well rounded community motivation that affects me via the economic cycle instead of an entirely personal one. Would be nice if escalations could provide both somehow without negatively affecting the economic cycle.
Decius
Combat characters relying on noncombat characters to get what they want is a core part of PFO.

For a brief time, victory tokens were very much in demand. Is there a way that we can tweak boss drops so that we care about them on an ongoing basis without breaking some part of the economy?

More recipes that use victory markers would turn it into a loot treadmill, but with balance passes at the number of vms dropped I suspect that is where things are going.

How high could the recipe drop chance be raised before it became too high? I feel like a 150 base percentage (modified by the group loot math, yields an average of about 2 for a full group) seems like something that would remain valuable for a while, and get the recipe for coin market going faster, but I suspect that it might be too reliable a source and make al others irrelevant (or else it is too small a source and nobody uses escalation bosses for a source of recipes because it is easier to get them elsewhere).
Tink says Stab
Gear that is useful to combat characters does not need to compete with crafted gear. Look at the planned Aztlanti stones (or whatever). They use a newly added slot that doesn't compete with any crafting slot. I don't want to see weapons drop. I don't want to see gear drop. I do want to see things that I can actually use in an immediate sense to drop. Doodads that I can take straight to an enchanter to turn my sucky gold ring into a Gold Ring of Major Punching +3. Items that quickly degrade over time, but if used give a stacking buff. Weapon oils that alter the damage types of your attacks.

Something that makes me go "Oh cool, I can use this to go kill people". Not things that make me go "Fuck the crafters, I'm out!"
Tink quivers in sheer euphoria as the dank memes course through his fedora
Nihimon
Tinkerton
Give us more achievements to grind up… I will literally sit there and hit monsters, watching my polearm kill number getting higher and higher.

+1

I'm not sure if Lee is saving higher Achievement Ranks for the future, but if he's not then I'd highly recommend creating a Rank 11 (it goes to 11!) that requires 1,000,000 or so kills, just so we can watch our numbers go up.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Tyncale
Nihimon
Tinkerton
Give us more achievements to grind up… I will literally sit there and hit monsters, watching my polearm kill number getting higher and higher.

+1

I'm not sure if Lee is saving higher Achievement Ranks for the future, but if he's not then I'd highly recommend creating a Rank 11 (it goes to 11!) that requires 1,000,000 or so kills, just so we can watch our numbers go up.
Really? smile Some of those achievements are just that, numbers, and I hope that will change.

I am hoping that some of them will for instance give a Faction reward or something in the future. I am close to Elite Cultist Slayer 10 (as well as Elite Knight Slayer 10) and I would like it if this opens up maybe membership of some shady NPC faction that will give me a small perk, or even item, or maybe a cool weaponskin. Or a title!

I say this because I feel that all the Lore and NPC's are still a pretty disconnected feature in the game: I am not really feeling part of the Pathfinder World yet, a citizen of Golarion. I know that the political framework that the Players will create is the bread and butter of the game, however we were also promised a rich and engaging Pathfinder World that we could be part of, with Factions, Alignments and Deities. I find all the work on Deities promising, but so far all of that works seems to be mostly tied to Combat and not much else yet.

I realize this is expensive themepark stuff (and fluff) but definately hoping that this will get some serious love in the future. Those achievements could be tied into that.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
We (Aragon) have noticed since the last patch that the secondary escalations are growing back too fast. It seems that they are back at 100% within 12 hours or so.

Secondly, escalations that do hit 100%, should spawn a sub boss, just to make things a bit more interesting. There should be a slight chance for a T1 escalation to drop T2 recipes; T2 to drop T3, etc.

Thirdly, the mini map should mark turn in locations on the map (Hellknight Liasson)
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Duffy Swiftshadow
@Tyv

It's possible the escalations in questions are occupying ruin hexes, for each ruin hex that escalation is touching it will double the reinforcement rate for all the related escalations touching it, including the source hex. Had that happen over by Canis once or twice.
thecrookedman
Will keepside chat 6/3 video be on the web?
some are born into greatness. Others have it thrusted inside of them. -Fatal Absolution
Tagnar
1) Mostly its something I can get together to do with friends. I also enjoy the recipe drops even if I have a tier 2 recipe its still fun getting one.

2) Boss mobs have guaranteed drops. Even if its a string bolos (sometimes its not!) its nice to know I will get something and even have a small chance at a higher level manuever/spell. I like the varied loot by Duergar and elementals like the tier2/3 raw materials.

3) Varied spell and attack use by mobs. The low hanging fruit would be to have different weapons used by the same mob names each with their own attack. This would be even more obvious for spell casters. Of course ideally each individual would vary their own attacks to some degree. I would love to see more rare spawns which could be quest related or not. Make them mini boss fights that have some varied attacks/tactics. Intermingling with other escalations would be interesting as well. Similar escalations could intermingle a diplomat/ambassador/honor guard or something similar. Opposing escalations could send an elite attack squad into the enemy hex. Interesting behaviors can be fun
Tagnar, Ironbreaker of Forgeholm
High Priest of Abadar
 
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