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Breaking Gear

Baron Malthius
RanBlade
Tigari
aww Rynnik..I don't want to kill you ;D OH, and no meaning allowed! WE FIGHT FOR THE LULZ!

Fighting for the luls can be portrayed in a RP way as … A roving band of marauders out to take there plunder and riches. If that was RPed out in a fun way I would be on board with a group doing that. It would also give me a target to defend the weak (PvEers) and innocent of the world by having a Brigade of bounty hunters or a army of honorable knights to defeat the mauraders.

And when its done with RP in mind even most PvE players can accept it easier haha. smile

I like your thinking RanBlade! The more RP the better IMO!

If we have good role play that we can all get in on rather than how things normally go around here, I think we can get somewhere and start moving past the usual banter.
Tigari
Face it, Not many settlements would accept me lol. I would want to go out on a PvP roam, and when I do, that would upset the leadership of the settlement, becuase they would be held accountable for my actions (becuase again, as I stated in another thread, everything is at the settlement level, not the Company level). So they would kick me out. The ONLY place for us is Golgotha
Tuoweit
Tigari
Face it, Not many settlements would accept me lol. I would want to go out on a PvP roam, and when I do, that would upset the leadership of the settlement, becuase they would be held accountable for my actions (becuase again, as I stated in another thread, everything is at the settlement level, not the Company level). So they would kick me out. The ONLY place for us is Golgotha

IMO that entirely depends on the settlement and how selective you are about targets when you "go out on a PvP roam."
Decius
Rynnik
@ RanBlade. Great post. Those are some awesome high tech long term types of solutions I think.

Tuoweit
Tigari
And to your making all other pvp'er blue, well, to be fair we're still a small portion of the community. Theres really only 1 settlement of us. Plus we have a couple crafting settlements that are with us. If there where more people like me in the game, we wouldn't all have to rally under the same banner so we're not so outnumbered by the others.

My point is that for the most part, you still wouldn't be "outnumbered by others" if you spread out across multiple settlements instead of all gathering under one banner (i.e. what I meant by "being blue" to each other) - most "others" aren't proactively seeking to fight you (assuming a blank slate of history, at least), if you're actively avoiding the "appointment" fights that you don't like.
Can I please get accepted into Phaeros so I can fight Tigari every day with meaning?
No. But you can join Rhed Team or Blew Team.
Quijenoth Starkiller
Ok so we are obviously talking about new mechanics here so I'll throw another idea in the mix.

Add in a second "PVP" Durability. 3 strikes and your out.

All players have a "PVP" durability of 3.

Anytime you die to a player you lose 1 durability and 1 PVP durability

When your PVP durability hits 0 your armor is disabled.

You must then return to a facility that can repair your armor. Resetting your PVP durability to 3 for a certain amount of coin. This could be the Armorsmith in a settlement or even the barracks holding.
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Edam
For some reason the whole idea of PvPers being outnumbered and ganged up on by carebears makes me think of this.
Tyncale
I have never liked the idea that another player could wreck my gear by killing me (repeatedly). His reward for killing me should be:

The fact that he is taking me out of the fight(need to work on soulbinding solutions obviously);
The spoils of loot: threading and gear looting have my approval;
The sheer joy of victory;

I also share the worry that the degradation-economy has a hard time taking off.

So how does gear leave the Economy:

Gear degrades over time by wearing it while you are in-game. Unequipping it takes of one (or two?) durability immediately so people will not game the system by only equipping their gear when they go out and do something. The degrading-time can be tweaked by the devs, and might even be tweaked per item-category. Like, an armor has 50 durability that ticks down 1 per in-game hour while worn. But your warm Gloves may only have 20 durabililty so will need replacement earlier if you consider it worthwhile to equip it. Numbers are out of thin air. Stuff that is NOT being worn(i.e. in the bank or Inv) has no dura loss. Nor is there any loss to equipped items when logged off.

Advantages:

  • Even crafters and so called "town-players" will wear out their gear over time even when they never PvE or PvP.
  • Repeatedly getting killed in a prolonged fight becomes less of a penalty to your gear which is annoying anyway and will be a hurdle for some to even engage in these prolonged fights: getting killed should be a drawback for the above mentioned reasons.
  • Since degrade-time could be tweaked by the devs very easily, the devs will have a much better control over the degradation-economy, then when they have to "balance" this through Wars and PvP itself.
  • Cuts down on AFK-ing! Remember that putting threaded gear in your Inventory takes of one or two Dura and makes it vulnerable for looting if you die somehow.
  • Players that play a lot, will experience a lot more gear wear (is that fair or unfair?)
  • Players that are obsessed with dura hits through PvP may actually decide to go PvP once in a while now.
  • PLayers will quickly learn to accept that Gear in PFO is a fluid, depletable asset, and learn to be less anal about it. The moment they start wearing gear they realize that it is wearing off. This should change their attachment to gear from the get go.
  • Non threaded gear will get unequipped during death so this gear will still lose one dura during death: this could make your threading choices even more meaningful. Or they could decide to not let this damage your gear, if it would be considered a double penalty to unthreaded gear. Up for debate. If GW would want Wars with many deaths to still lead to (almost) complete gear attrition, then they could leave this in. Leaving this in would also favor people who manage to die less then others, so they can still feel good about themselves.

Disadvantages:
  • Less flexibility when for instance you want to slot another Utility that uses other keywords and thus requires equipping other Misc gear. Though maybe we could call this a meaningfull choice. smile Or you could make it so that unequipping near a bank does not cause dura loss.
  • It may even out gear loss across the board though I am not sure if this is entirely true.
  • Players who are planning on doing stuff in town for a few hours that does not benefit from armor may decide to take off their gear, taking the one dura-hit, and run around "naked" for the time. People may feel they are obliged to do this and consider it a hassle. It's a choice though. Idling and AFK-ing in town seem to be favorite activities so this may need some more consideration.
  • This system could be a huge burden on Network and Databases.

The 25% gear loss at death is up for debate. (Can unthreaded gear be destroyed like this too?) Resources and such certainly could still be subject to this.

I am pretty sure there are some huge oversights here, so have at it.

The two main points to take home from this:

  • Threaded gear would be resistant to being killed repeatedly in fights, thus lowering the hurdle to take part in those fights;
  • Gear would be leaving the Economy at a steady pace no matter what happens, easily tweakable by the devs without having to mess with other game-systems.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Tyncale
I have never liked the idea that another player could wreck my gear by killing me (repeatedly). His reward for killing me should be:

The fact that he is taking me out of the fight(need to work on soulbinding solutions obviously);
And if we greatly increase durability hits (even if only temporarily) that works as a temporary solution. There's no better time than EE to test whether increased hits to durability will be a positive or negative game balancer.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Tyncale
I don't think I understand. Is the harsh durability loss meant so that a player who has died once thinks, "Ok, that's enough, don't want anymore dura-loss, I leave this fight for what it is"?

I think I personally would avoid PvP even more if it would break my gear that much. And it seems to me a real frustration for true PvP-ers, who would like to get back to the fight.

Or is this "getting back to the fight" something that people want balanced, and made harder?
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Rynnik
Any thoughts on my originally posted idea?

Rynnik
I think the best move might be to institute 'MUTUAL WAR DECLARATIONS' that bypass reputation as a PvP limiter while waiting on tech. If EoX and EBA+ settlements could agree to opt in to killing each other right now at all times without rep loss I think the amount of gear being burned would greatly increase and we might see the churn we need to get the economy rolling and rest dev concerns about conflict levels.
Phaeros has been pretty vocal about locking in the conflict between us and saying they won't negotiate etc. so what about making that more reflective in game right away? If mechanically we can fight and skirmish all the time without rep loss I really think that would be the first low hanging fruit that would great accelerate healthy fights with lots of deaths to give actual teeth to something like increased dura loss etc.

Even if gear broke after a single death there still wouldn't be that much of it breaking. Tower fights and scheduled opportunities to rumble aren't working because of political size disparities so why not lock in the type of fights that DON'T have a schedule on them and where reasonable size forces have a chance to engaging organically?

If Phaeros and Golgotha for example were declared at 'war' and were red to each other from now on for as long as it lasts until both sides check a box that said 'war over' I think it would have a massive positive benefit on the amount of gear being sunk and on the game overall.
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