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Breaking Gear

Yrme
Rynnik
So obviously enough gear isn't being sunk in this game to properly drive a sandbox economy and it is a big enough concern to the devs that, in my opinion, they are willing to dance with the devil on something like shrine camping to chance more gear being broken.



Thoughts?

I don't agree with the premise. I don't think it's obvious that not enough gear is being broken. I also don't think that it has to be why the devs aren't moving faster on bind points for shrines.

As a crafter, I see stuff being made every day. We are making slight headway in building up war stocks, as we should be able to given the level of conflict. TEO chooses to generally not participate in the sandbox economy, mostly because of limitations with the current markets. We do deals on the side with friends and have our own internal economy. Both sides in the EoX-EBA have embargoed their markets against the other, which likely slows down the economy as well.

As for shrines - the development cycle is what it is, and GW's priorities can't always change based on player conflict in the game or forums, or they'll never get done.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Rynnik
Yrme
I don't think it's obvious that not enough gear is being broken.
uh
https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/2410/?page=33#post-31842
Ryan Dancey


I think there's a lot less gear destruction happening than I would like. Without gear destruction the crafting economy suffers. If the crafting economy suffers the PvE becomes meaningless. I've known since the very first day we started talking about Threads that we were going to have this problem to some degree but I think it's acute.

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Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
RanBlade
There is definitely not enough gear being broken. I have the same set I started with and I still have like 5 durability points left. I have run in and tried stupid things I knew I shouldn't because I had no risk. I knew it was going to spawn me with all my gear back at the shrine.

A run in kill a couple things and die and then run back rinse repeat to kill a NPC camp solo should not be a viable tactic.

And yes it should be harder to get back into the large scale pvp. not impossible but definitely harder. Otherwise you end up with a instanced BG effect.

Graceful over time gear break down like mentioned is the best option if they want to redesign the whole durability system.
Nihimon
Tyncale
I have never liked the idea that another player could wreck my gear by killing me (repeatedly). His reward for killing me should be:

The fact that he is taking me out of the fight(need to work on soulbinding solutions obviously);
The spoils of loot: threading and gear looting have my approval;
The sheer joy of victory;

I completely agree. Unfortunately, the game as it currently stands completely fails to accomplish that first item. For those of you who've been involved in a significant amount of PvP, how many times have you managed to kill someone only to have them back in the fight and killing you before the next death occurs?
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Nihimon
Rynnik
Phaeros has been pretty vocal about locking in the conflict between us and saying they won't negotiate etc…

Phaeros has repeatedly tried to cool off the conflict, but every time we do it's not long before y'all are back down here with your murder squads or taking Towers. We don't make deals with specific terms because we don't trust you. The only thing that's "locking in the conflict" is the fact that y'all keep attacking us.

Rynnik
If mechanically we can fight and skirmish all the time without rep loss…

I would quit playing the game. The game would have become a murder simulator with no consequences other than those imposed directly by other players - exactly the "trap" that Ryan talked about.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Rynnik
Nihimon
Rynnik
Phaeros has been pretty vocal about locking in the conflict between us and saying they won't negotiate etc…

Phaeros has repeatedly tried to cool off the conflict, but every time we do it's not long before y'all are back down here with your murder squads or taking Towers. We don't make deals with specific terms because we don't trust you. The only thing that's "locking in the conflict" is the fact that y'all keep attacking us.

Rynnik
If mechanically we can fight and skirmish all the time without rep loss…

I would quit playing the game. The game would have become a murder simulator with no consequences other than those imposed directly by other players - exactly the "trap" that Ryan talked about.
lmao

You started a war with us.

Do I need to substantiate that again in this thread or can you accept that as you have previously in other threads?

That war has never ended since the AGC incident where you decided to break the tenuous peace that was in place between our two groups.

It has at times been a low grade conflict that has swung back and forth and been less or more active as we needed to train etc but Phaeros and Golgotha are in a war you started that has never, even for a second ended and won't because, you know, you don't trust us so you don't want to make a deal.

You chose that political state of being between our two groups. You opted in to PvP with us.

In war all is fair and war is hell.
https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/2410/?page=26#post-31699
Ryan Dancey
All is fair in war. And war is hell.
We aren't talking about ganking randoms unaffiliates or people who aren't part of an ongoing conflict. We are talking about upping the number of deaths in a conflict you have been extremely happy to promote and take your share in escalating and which is well acknowledged and understood across the server.

I am only talking about fighting without rep loss between us and our two groups. That is EXACTLY the kind of consequence that SHOULD come out of political stances promoting long term wars between groups.

FOR ANYONE UNCLEAR ABOUT THIS: I mean there shouldn't be but here it is. If you attack EoX and end up in a war with us that doesn't magically end because we haven't killed you today. We are busy. We try and get around to everyone in turn but we only have so much time. IF YOU WANT TO NOT BE AT WAR AFTER A WAR STARTS with us you actually have to talk to Phyllain and negotiate an agreement to end that war. You don't get to sit there and say we haven't engaged for a week I guess the conflict is over now, we are like Lawful Evil, yo.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Yrme
Rynnik
Yrme
I don't think it's obvious that not enough gear is being broken.
uh
https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/2410/?page=33#post-31842
Ryan Dancey
…stuff
?????????

I stopped bothering with that thread quite a while back, thanks.

I don't know what Ryan is seeing. Our crafters are busier than they have been for a good while, due to changes in how we can do our banking. Our adventurers go through equipment frequently enough, perhaps because we do a lot of PvE; perhaps we're cavalier about gear. I see a huge amount of equipment turn-over from where I sit, based on the number of characters I see.

I think there are reasons for what Ryan may be seeing across the server:

1) First and foremost, player activity has waned. Fewer players, less adventuring, less conflict, less equipment loss.

2) Many of the most dedicated players have Destiny Twin characters from the Kickstarter. Those characters are typically either an adventurer + crafter (or gatherer) or crafter + crafter. Which means the most dedicated players - the ones that are still active, have access to crafters.

3) Because of the xp-over-time system, inactive players still keep their character accounts current. Because of social ties, they make the crafting characters available to their buddies.

The end result is a temporary, but large, surplus of crafter characters to the number of adventurers.

The questions I'd ask Ryan are: how often do you expect us to lose a set of gear - weekly, bi-weekly, monthly? When you count gear totals are you looking at all gear (we have hundreds of sets of T0 banked) or just at the T2 stuff? Do you count the stuff we set aside at 3/20 durability, in hopes of a repair system? How far off is spawn and equipment binding, which is supposed to be a key part of the solution.

If binding is still a long ways off, the easiest solution is to raise the durability hit per death. Raise it to two (or four), see if that changes things, then adjust up or down.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Rynnik
@ Yrme you can argue with Ryan if you like. It is all good but would you mind doing it in another thread then? I really hope to promote some positive discussion about how to get more gear sunk through increased PvP in this one.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Tigari
EDIT: Read Rynniks post above, and mine wasn't helping.
Yrme
Rynnik
Any thoughts on my originally posted idea?

Rynnik
I think the best move might be to institute 'MUTUAL WAR DECLARATIONS' that bypass reputation as a PvP limiter while waiting on tech. If EoX and EBA+ settlements could agree to opt in to killing each other right now at all times without rep loss I think the amount of gear being burned would greatly increase and we might see the churn we need to get the economy rolling and rest dev concerns about conflict levels.

I don't think that it would work.

The current systems allow EBA and EoX to feud each other, without mutual consent. It can be over towers, or it can be used to just kill members of a company wherever they might be. Yet we aren't feuding. That would strongly suggest that both sides would rather accept the status quo rather than feud; they do not see a feud as likely to achieve their goals.

If a non-consensual feud is unlikely to achieve either's goals at this time, would both mutually agree to a rep-free fight? Just looking at the EBA roster, could we expect that Keeper's Pass would sign up for it? Or Brighthaven? And if KP and BH didn't agree to it, would Phaeros? Or Phaeros? Destroying equipment and having lots of PvP for fun might not be a mutual goal.

edits made to the last paragraph.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
 
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