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Wizard class combines least hps with worst damage.

Elsworth Sugarfoot
I understand and agree with this argument, but I've spent all of my xp on combat. I feel that mages should be balanced with the other combat classes: melee and archer. They should also be balanced against the healing/tankiness of clerics (who also can use melee weapons or longbows). It's not like I'm taking a crafter or a gather out and complaining he isn't viable. I bet you right now a gatherer with Rank 4 longbow attacks would defeat a wizard.
Rynnik
Elsworth Sugarfoot
I will propose 1 solution which is to at least double the damage of mage expendables.
I'd really like to see how things would shake out if this happened together with a corresponding nerf on damage on cantrips. Combined with a nerf to speed effects in game (travel domain, haste, quicken) it would be a real shake up to the current pvp ecosystem.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Elsworth Sugarfoot
You don't need a corresponding nerf to cantrips, because as I've already explained, wizard cantrip dps isn't much compared to fighter and archer attacks.

I also maintain that roles outside of travel domain need a boost (instead of nerf to travel) either through introducing powerful expendables activated by their keywords or bonuses of their own. For example taking my rank 4 illusionist from +6 stealth to +60. Then you would actually see people using it and not travel domain. Or adding a ton of damage to evoker expendables. Conjurer has razed and afflicted on crits, but right now those numbers aren't high enough to warrant this choice. Most of these roles features need a doubling or more of the effects they grant to make me even consider slotting them.
Decius
Making expendables in general worthwhile is a different issue. Right now they are either niche, like Greater Cure and the Bolos series, precombat buff, or filler attacks that are only useful when out of stamina.
Elsworth Sugarfoot
In the case of wizard expendables you could kill two birds with one stone. Buffing wizard expendables to make them powerful would help balance the class, but would have a bunch of other desirable effects as well. Make power more important (use of camps) make reputation more important (use of taverns anywhere). They have natural limitations: long cast time, interuptable, 1 per combat, keyword limited…
You're obviously just arguing because it's me posting.
Elmin Sterro
I generally agree with the points Elsworth is bringing up here, but I think the problems extend beyond the issues with expendables. I was just going to add a couple of notes, but apparently have enough commentary to waste my whole lunch break (and beyond).

One of my biggest pet peeves is that there is currently only one single target secondary staff cantrip (Killing Joke), the rest are AoE and thus subject to major penalties within the attack economy. So if I want to use a staff as my primary weapon I have only one option for a high-stamina high-impact attack, an option which does not mesh with my the rest of my preferred cantrip selection. On top of that, this attack also happens to have a stun attached, making it so far advanced compared to other cantrips in its class that it is effectively mandatory.

If AoEs are going to be the Wizards defining feature, should our attack budgets for these be held to the same standards as other roles AoE attacks? Combat is currently very dynamic with movement being necessary for survival in both PvE and PvP, making AoEs virtually impossible to use, except as an opener or effectively a single target attack, without damaging friendly targets. Some are much easier to use in dynamic combat than others (i.e. streaks are very nearly a single target attack in practice, are all AoE types costed the same way (i.e. Streak vs Burst vs, Long Blast), and if so what kind of relationship do they have? Will we eventually be able to target spells manually rather than having the effect originate only from self or targeted enemy?

Apart from distressed, for which the patterns and synergies are obvious, the states our primary attacks can apply and the states our secondaries can capitalize on do not fall into the same schools (i.e. volatile, vexing, etc.), meaning we cannot both capitalize on these effects and fight at full capacity with keywords matched equally on our attacks.

Also in regards to states, our expendables capitalize almost exclusively on disrupted, which is an incredibly difficult state to apply. We have 3 cantrips that can possibly apply dispelling, 2 of which are a 25% chance and 1 of those is a 2 second cast, with the only other sources being a 6 level expendable and the Abjurer feature (which is totally awesome BTW). Also if I’m not mistaken, in order to become disrupted a buff must be removed from the target by a dispelling effect, making it even more situationally available and possibly entirely out of our control. Since we cannot capitalize on these conditionals except when the stars happen to align just perfectly (hasn’t happened to me yet), these effects are wasted budget for our abilities right now.

In regards to features, many of them have very lack-luster passive abilities and several have keywords which do not apply to any existing expendables.

Evoker, Conjurer and Necromancer all currently capitalize on critical hits to apply debuff stacks in separate channels roughly equivalent to those applied by a staff primary attack. Other than by maximizing our attack bonus, applying true strike, and using the few precise attacks available, I don’t see how we are intended to capitalize on these abilities, making them a very slight benefit on a very rare condition. The only scenarios in which these abilities proc consistently is when fighting dramatically weaker targets (i.e. whites and yellows), in which case we already do enough damage from base attack to kill targets in 1-2 hits.

The passive HP bonus from Transmuter has not changed with the updates to HP (granted those numbers are still in flux), meaning it is now providing something like a .02% increase to HP at 5 ranks if you have HP trained up high and are wearing T2 armor. The recovery bonus is neat, but again at rank 5 it is providing the equivalent to an extra 2 armor keywords worth of recovery which doesn’t seem particularly strong.

Abjurer, Enchanter, and Illusionist are currently providing what I consider to be useful, interesting, and flavorful abilities, but Abjurer and Illusionist have hardly any expendables which work with them. The illusion keyword has literally no matching expendables, not even Rainbow Pattern, which would make perfect sense as that is an illusion spell in the tabletop game. Enchanter on the other hand has several matching expendables and they are easily some of the best expendables currently available for PvP.

Back to True Strike, it is currently our only utility. The General utilities are mostly rogue and fighter utilities in disguise, and do not work particularly well with the rest of our ability set. For this reason, most Wizards I know are currently training utilities from other roles (notably Evasion) just to be able to take advantage of both utility slots.

In regards to DPS, I think some tweaking to the current resistance levels is still in order. While I have not had much opportunity to test against other players since the EE9 changes were made, I’m pretty confident that we cannot “burn down Fighters in an instant with their energy based attacks”. I have heard archers mention being able to DPS down purple mobs before they can get into melee range, whereas I might be able to drop one to maybe 50-75% before having to choose between getting crushed or running, assuming I slowed it down on the way. One the other hand with the levels of resistance provided by T2+2 cloth armor and using the Mage feat, I have enough resistance that the Magma and Ice elementals initial ranged attack does no perceptible damage to me, leading me to believe it might be working a little too well.

Another thing about the current energy resistances that bothers me is that the resistance numbers are equal for all energy damage types, unless you have an odd bonus from some other ability. It does not really make sense to me that Fire resistance and Force or Sonic resistance have the same availability. Also if the resistance values are flat across the board, it makes choosing between different energy types meaningless, unless you are about to fight skeletons or Fire/Ice elementals.

That’s all I’ve got for now.
Midnight
Wow.

I don't even know if that's all correct, but I'm impressed that you wrote it.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Elsworth Sugarfoot
It's pretty much all correct afaik. Thank you for writing out a more detailed breakdown of wizards.
Elmin Sterro
Midnight
Wow.

I don't even know if that's all correct, but I'm impressed that you wrote it.

Thanks. Apart from the anecdotal stuff, you should be able to confirm most of the details with a Goblinary search. It's totally within possibility that I'm misunderstanding or flat-out wrong about something(s), in which case I'm sure someone will swing by to correct me eventually.
Elmin Sterro
Elsworth Sugarfoot
It's pretty much all correct afaik. Thank you for writing out a more detailed breakdown of wizards.

No problem. smile
 
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