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Wizard class combines least hps with worst damage.

Elsworth Sugarfoot
You could actually probably heal through 2 t2 wizards doing max dps. Nivia and I have seen it.
Elsworth Sugarfoot
We haven't even broached how incredibly crappy and useless wands are yet smile
Nivia Rey
Elsworth Sugarfoot
We haven't even broached how incredibly crappy and useless wands are yet smile

dont, i have erased them from memory.
Tink says Stab
Elsworth Sugarfoot
You could actually probably heal through 2 t2 wizards doing max dps. Nivia and I have seen it.

Given I didn't have to go near Redouble or a Healthpot, and I only slot one of my Minor Cures, I'm almost certain you are right.
Tink quivers in sheer euphoria as the dank memes course through his fedora
Dreamslinger
I wouldn't have a problem with a healing focused character being able to heal themselves through one (or maybe even two) player's damage output. I'd just expect that character to have trouble doing enough damage to drop an opponent in a reasonable amount of time.

I don't think that's the case here though.
HowardWdW
One of the things I love about the community involved with this game is the passion. We are passionate about it and we want it to be successful. Sometimes people's language becomes personalized, but I can deal with that because it shows passion for the game.

One of the big criticisms has been this game is TITLED as Pathfinder Online, is attracting a very large proportion of TT players, and yet feels nothing like TT. Wizard mechanics are a huge part of the reason for that. Is this a reason for low player population/retention? I don't know, but perhaps.

The first character I created was a Wizard. It was confusing. It was not even close to TT, which was not what I expected. I leveled her to Wiz9 and Rank 4 attacks and then stopped playing her as a Wizard. Now she's speced as a Seneschal and Dowser. I stopped playing her as a Wizard because it has none of the FLAVOR I associate with Wizards.

Wizards are not meant to solo mobs. Wizards are not meant to go 1v1 in PvP. Wizards are big AoE damage dealers, crowd control and party buff/ enemy debuffers. Wizards need to be part of groups and be protected by Fighters and Clerics. Since this game is all about GROUP play, it seems this ought to fall right in line with the game's design intent. See my post on the thread about expendables which has a lot of ideas (not just mine) on some of these subjects.

Where are the mechanics that allow Fighters and Clerics to protect the party Wizard or in some cases allow the Wizard to protect herself?

There are a bunch of Fighter things that do knockback, only knockback isn't working. If your Fighter was able to knock a melee combatant away from beating on his wizard, stun him in so doing and then capitalize on the stun with a devastating attack, all because the enemy wasn't targeting his opponent fighter, then you would have some party mechanics that look more like TT and enemy Fighters would have to be more careful about just focusing on the opponent Wizard.

Where is the "protection from arrows" type of spell that the Wizard could cast to decrease the effect of an enemy archer?

While there are many attacks that key off of opportunity, if a fighter is in the face of your archer, is the increased damage so great that the archer must either run or switch to a melee weapon? No. Leading to the absurd situation of archers standing toe to toe with heavy melee combatants and continuing to shoot arrows.

If the design intent is to focus the game on being in groups, make the mechanics move people in that direction.
Tink says Stab
Where is the "protection from arrows" type of spell that the Wizard could cast to decrease the effect of an enemy archer?

http://goblinary.com/FeatDetails?feat=Protective+Ward

While there are many attacks that key off of opportunity, if a fighter is in the face of your archer, is the increased damage so great that the archer must either run or switch to a melee weapon? No. Leading to the absurd situation of archers standing toe to toe with heavy melee combatants and continuing to shoot arrows.

Which melee Fighters have you been going up against? If a melee fighter is on top of your archer, your archer is going to lose that DPS race. Hard.
Tink quivers in sheer euphoria as the dank memes course through his fedora
HowardWdW
So I put up a buff that has a 24 second cooldown and which lasts for 12 seconds and increases my damage resistance by 12. Nothing like the effect of Protection from arrows in TT.

I know your focus is PvP Tink, and that's a vital part of the game. It doesn't happen to be what I focus on, and I haven't used my Archer in any PvP battles, only Fighter and Cleric. So perhaps my comment is wrong in that regard. BUT my archer can stand in front of an Ogre Brute, shoot it as it comes toward him and kill it without moving if he really wants to.

It's the "FEEL" of this that's wrong. The point I'm trying to make is to get the game to "FEEL" like being in a party in PvE is a structured event where people have to "play" their characters "in character", rather than a mass of folks targeting one enemy, burning it down and switching to the next while some of the party kites monsters around because the AI randomly assigns agro which then rarely gets reassigned.

This is a Heroic Fantasy Genre game. But there is no "feel" of that. There is no "role play" of the different character types. The game mechanics can be altered to achieve that.
Rynnik
HowardWdW
It's the "FEEL" of this that's wrong. The point I'm trying to make is to get the game to "FEEL" like being in a party in PvE is a structured event where people have to "play" their characters "in character", rather than a mass of folks targeting one enemy, burning it down and switching to the next while some of the party kites monsters around because the AI randomly assigns agro which then rarely gets reassigned.

This is a Heroic Fantasy Genre game. But there is no "feel" of that. There is no "role play" of the different character types. The game mechanics can be altered to achieve that.
That is way more on the mobs side of thing then the characters with the current game. In my opinion, the 'feel' you are looking for isn't going to be close to achievable until things like AI etc get tweaked and PvE moves away from being facerolling easy - that leaves PvP only for balance considerations and building 'feel' around.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Elsworth Sugarfoot
The AoE argument is not really valid in terms of pvp or even T2 escalations. AoEs are only good for smashing bandits, goblins, cultists, etc. After that it's a game of focus fire, where wizards are doing some of the worst DPS. If you want to smash T1 escalations and get lots of lesser tokens, Wizards are the right choice. You are right, they have none of the feel of TT wizards, or any other game's wizards. They are essentials gimped ranged combat characters with different sound effects, who wear robes, and can be somewhat effective when played right and comboed with other characters. I don't understand why Goblinworks wouldn't want them to have more of a TT feel. Every class should have more of a TT feel. Those are the people who are going to want to play this game.
 
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