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$15 per month for an alpha/beta...

Lokai
Ok Lets begin by saying a few things
1: I've been playing MMO's since UO
2: I don't mind subscription fees in fact i prefer it…

But i have issues paying for something that is " unfinished " or still in production. If you guys are struggling for extra money past the kick starter then, maybe you need to consider going the early access route. I can't for the life of me see myself forking over the same fee as i would for a game like archeage, DCUO or heck even WoW for a game i KNOW isn't near done yet.

Now i am a HUGE fan of Pathfinder and even bigger fan of D&D in the past, so when i heard was going to be a pathfinder mmo, i was a bit worried. But hearing whats being done has me intrigued and yes i'm trying toe trial out BUT the trial wont tell me much, and i honestly cant pay 15 a month for a game i know is still being developed. I think as a whole i'm just not a fan of this, and i've seen other threads on other forums concerning this matter to.

I really think you need to reconsider this, if it was a one time fee to access the beta i'd be ok with that(well i dislike the idea but its not unheard of and happens alot now) or going with whole early access idea. But…what i'm seeing here just feels like nickle and diming the folks … it rubs me the wrong way and i wanted to voice that. I am curious how many others aren't to keen on the idea, or if people are alright with paying normal sub fee for an unfinished product.
Locke
If you don't want to pay, then don't. I enjoy what I get, but I am paying for XP. Why do I need to reconsider what you do not want. You seem clueless.
Lokai
That isn't the point, the point is they are charging for an unfinished product, for 14.99 a month i could pay for a triple A mmo like FF14 and the like. If you are ok with it, cool but i am not and i question a company wants people to pay for something before its even in the polish stages. I think game is interesting but, a sub fee for something this early on? that's a big big big red flag.
Auriga
You aren't the first to make this argument, I would counter that it could be considered an investment. If you are insisting that the big MMO's like FF 14 are the only ones worth putting a subscription fee into, you are saying that small budget teams cannot do an MMO and thus you have actually stifled innovation in the MMO field and independent developers shouldn't even bother. Each EE patch adds a lot and considering the size of the team it's amazing what they have done.

I would also offer this, if there are enough people subbing than the team can actually hire more developers and build this game better and faster.

If you aren't happy with the game fine, but I and everyone else has the right to play the game our way.
Midnight
@Lokai

Not only are there folks willing to pay the subscription price, but thousands of us paid a premium above the subscription.

I paid $100 per account (and I have multiple accounts) and got 3 months play with each account. That means each account paid a $55 "box price" in addition to subscriptions.

While there are more polished games available, this game has evenings of extreme fun that feel like they matter in our little world. Part of that is because there are almost no other sandboxes this interesting.

In addition, we are crowdforging a product, and frankly this has been the most interesting thing I've done in a lifetime of gaming. The designers actually listen to and respond to both our ideas and our priorities.

While $15/month may be a hard sell for you, for the right people that $15 a month is a steal. There is NO box price anymore, and some people are going to embrace this "unfinished game" because the act of crowdforging can make it THEIR game, rather than just a game.

You'll be getting into the game for far less of an upfront price, and far less commitment, than thousands of the folks before you. You'll have a working world and a real society to run around and create drama/content in all the while.

You've actually chosen an opportune time to join us, and if you're the kind of player some of us are, you'll probably look back at this thread and chuckle to yourself 5 months from now.

You have every right to look for a more polished game from the usual suspects big budget production houses. But your choices are few and far between if you're looking for MMO sandboxes.

If you want to be led by the nose through theme park MMOs, though, there's a plethora of existing polished games, as well as big budget games on the horizon.

In the meantime, enjoy your free trial and be sure to find other folks to adventure with for maximum enjoyment.

Pathfinder University is always a solid choice for a starting settlement, and the rest of our settlements present a variety of communities for you to sample.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Lokai
Not everyone has that kind of disposable income, 100 bucks for access to the game till launch? i could understand. 30 bucks for access for a beta round? i think i could get. The problem is sort of compounded, they did a kick starter, and now asking for even more money? if you arent able to generate the funds to do the game out right then, you have a problem. The game is ambitious and i like some of the ideas, but i am also not about to throw a full subscription fee at something could end up crashing and burning.

It comes down to history and how many times a man can be burned before he starts saying No, its fine that some people are willing to do that, but having played several hours of the game now. I can't see paying a full sub for this game, you guys are PAYING them to do THERE beta testing do you understand that? something that MANY other companies offer FREE of charge, or better yet PAY people to do(internal testers) you are PAYING for.

A man walks up to you with a car frame, and he says to you " hey if you rent this car for 2 years it might get finished " would you rent it? might look like the coolest car ever, but its just a concept a design what could be, further he says to you " oh yes when its finished you'll still have to pay full price for the car, and pay rental fees " would you do it? i can garentee your answer would be to laugh the man off and walk away.

Is essentially what they are asking you to do, test our game, find the bugs provide feedback and PAY us for the privileged to do so. No that is not a good business practice, and it baffles me how people can sit there and throw money at someone to do there job. Despite how good the game MIGHT be, is no excuse for a full priced subscription, if they want early access then do a typical early access…

Just not going to do it personally, though i hope the game ends up good not paying you for something i've done in the past at no cost.
MidknightTopaz
Did you betatest for Pathfinder, for any of the books it ever offered for it? This is seriously pretty much that same concept, with us in the unfinished game, they see how it runs, how we interact with their world… where they need to adjust things, and even find bugs and issues that they wouldn't have otherwise discovered in their systems. Like the random white hat and boots some characters and monsters had for a while. These things can't always be found if you are using a small group of players just testing… no, they want people to Play the game, and that's why people are playing it and paying to do so, because they Want to Play. Not be test dummies.
Tyncale
Lokai, don't forget the part where 2 years from now you find it unfair that this game already has veterans running around with loads of XP. smile(That they paid for when the game was unfinished. And that you only have to pay for when the game is more finished). So unfair. We take the risk, you get the spoils. smile

If you don't want to take the risk of paying for something that may crash and burn then I would advice NOT to hop in right now. Because it is a real possibility as with any game in development. Only hop in if you find it enough fun to warrant the 15 dollars, and look upon the accumulated XP as a future bonus if the game pulls through.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Midnight
I'm fully aware of how out of the norm it is to be doing it this way. But have you taken a good hard look at the sandboxes out there? They are few and far between, and getting in on the ground floor of this one may well be worth it.

I just don't think there are many good sandbox choices out there.

But I'd never pay $15 for this level of development on a theme park game, even if there was crowdforging. Like I said, if you can stomach theme parks there's a plethora of choices, including one I dabble in (TSW) that you mentioned in another thread. It seems like a fine game, but I just can't engulf myself in a theme park MMO the way I can in a sandbox MMO.

If a sandbox MMO is what you're looking for, and you want to be in from the beginning (rather than opening an account on a 10 year old game) there just aren't many choices out there.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Lokai
MidknightTopaz
Did you betatest for Pathfinder, for any of the books it ever offered for it? This is seriously pretty much that same concept, with us in the unfinished game, they see how it runs, how we interact with their world… where they need to adjust things, and even find bugs and issues that they wouldn't have otherwise discovered in their systems. Like the random white hat and boots some characters and monsters had for a while. These things can't always be found if you are using a small group of players just testing… no, they want people to Play the game, and that's why people are playing it and paying to do so, because they Want to Play. Not be test dummies.

They can do the beta test with out having to force everyone to " pay " for honor of playing there broken buggy game to begin with… i did beta test for the table top game, and ya know what? i never paid a dime to do so, they released all of the " pre-release " notes and books to the public for free, my friends and i fooled around with it debated over it, and had fun.
Tyncale
Lokai, don't forget the part where 2 years from now you find it unfair that this game already has veterans running around with loads of XP. smile(That they paid for when the game was unfinished. And that you only have to pay for when the game is more finished). So unfair. We take the risk, you get the spoils. smile

If you don't want to take the risk of paying for something that may crash and burn then I would advice NOT to hop in right now. Because it is a real possibility as with any game in development. Only hop in if you find it enough fun to warrant the 15 dollars, and look upon the accumulated XP as a future bonus if the game pulls through.

Which is another can of worms all together, this game is CLEARLY still in an alpha state, and they have no intention of doing a wipe at any point. Which effectively means all major areas will be claimed, taken and huge power houses will be dominating the game, long before its ever in its launch phases. This means anyone who is willing to pay that amount is immediately at an advantage.

No i'm sorry these are all big red warning flags… this does not work in this kind of game having played Archeage let me tell you massive groups of people will have zero interest in playing when they realize its all taken and they have no chance against a super power group who has paid there way to victory.

I was so excited for this game but it looks like Goblinworks is going to drive the whole thing straight into the ground.

What should be done is easy and simple because its been done in the past
1: those that buy a box copy are invited to play the beta, random invites are sent from a pool every so often to draw in a random demographic
2: Nothing in the beta remains after the game reaches launch, everything gets wiped in preparation for the actual launch.

As far as i am aware none of that is planned currently which is a huge huge newbie mistake on the part of goblinworks, any experienced MMO dev would tell them that.
 
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