Cookies Disclaimer

I agree Our site saves small pieces of text information (cookies) on your device in order to authenticate logins, deliver better content and provide statistical analysis. You can adjust your browser settings to prevent our site from using cookies, but doing so will prevent some aspects of the site from functioning properly.

Really Disappointed

Duffy Swiftshadow
BlackDog
Mbando
Blackdog, if you want to fight this–if you insist on playing this game as if it were a themepark MMO like EQ or WOW, or a single-player CRPG like Baldur's Gate ("Where YOUR the hero!"smile–you will absolutely be disappointment. You don't even have to test it–for sure PFO will not play like those models.

If instead you decide to try the game PFO is–if you join a settlement and either be a crafter/developer or an adventurer, you MAY have fun. It can be a lot of fun, but then again, maybe it's not your cup of tansy. But at least you'll know then smile

I, like many others, landed on Planet Golarion with no preconcieved ideas. How am I to know what a game is until I try it? Another friend who plays similar games also made a character up and tried the game, he came to the exact same conclusions I did, he actually had a worse experience than I did, he made up a mage character and immediately died to magic resistant monsters. This isnt selling the game to the un-initiated. I have no insistance to play anything any particular "way". Obviously, there is a higher power saying this is not true by design. No one here who is proposing "Join Me" has given me a compelling reason to be part of a collective other than strength in numbers, we will give you stuff. Why cant I depend on the strength of my own arm?

This game has no connection to Pathfinder, and I refuse to drive a dwarf version of a cyborg-crafting-bot Eve spaceship to earn spacebucks through an empty universe. Question yourselves, why is this even called Pathfinder? There is no Path.

It's called Pathfinder because it uses the setting and themes from the game. Pathfinder is a table top system and setting that allows you to craft your own stories and interactions with a group of players. The guided modules while well supported and a fully integrated aspect of the TT game is not the end all and be all of the TT version. PFO follows the core of the original books more than anything else: it's a set of rule you use to weave a story from your experience and interactions with other players. Just like the TT game it's really meant to be played with other people. It just so happens that in an MMO scale you can add the layer of players not only cooperating but playing against each other. It's a progression of several core concepts that most TT games are based around. I feel like most people that complain about it not matching TT have a very limited view of TT RPGs.

You shouldn't have to read anything or talk to anyone to learn how to play? That's pretty much exactly how TT works, it requires either a lot of reading or someone to hand guide you through it all. Seems to share a bit more in common with TT than we thought.

On the flipside of your 'pointless' argument I feel the opposite way. I refuse to play another story treadmill that allows me little to no agency.
Mistwalker
BlackDog
I did read the new player guide, which was added 2 days after I started.
I made my character as a test drive. I did not seek help needing none. I dont think I should have to ask for help, read a manual, or google a starting character in any game. If I crash in flames, I will make another and crash some more. You are inferring a complexity that I do not understand the game, and are stating the game has more to offer than what I can see.

Various version of the new player guide have been around since the Alpha. The latest version has been put front and center on the patcher, so that it is not easily missed.

There is a learning curve to the game, like most games, but it is one that is different from a lot of other MMOs - so sometimes previous experience with other MMOs can lead you astray.

The game is designed so that a single player cannot do it all (sort of like today, you can't make your own cloth, then clothes, produce all of your own food, etc..). You need to have some interaction with other players to obtain the items that you cannot make yourself - and to be able to access higher level abilities (that is, being able to access training and such for T2 abilities and gear).

You can do a lot solo - I often do. I have taken down escalations by myself (high T1 and low T2) - it just took a lot of time. But I can't take on the tougher mobs solo, I need to join others for that.

I can gather, refine (some items) and craft (some items) by myself. But it is more efficient to trade/sell gathered gear to refiners and crafters to get them to make you gear.

I won't give you gear, but I will provide you with gear in exchange for resources, coins, recipes, expendables or help with some activities. I will also gladly explain the ins and outs of the game (as I understand them - and I do get some things wrong - or they change). I can be found on the Golarions Mumble most nights (Golarion.Mumble.Com, port 3093).
Edam
Duffy Swiftshadow
On the flipside of your 'pointless' argument I feel the opposite way. I refuse to play another story treadmill that allows me little to no agency.

Very much this. The backbone of traditional FRP games both single player and MMOs is akin to a crossword puzzle. The game designer has produced all this content in the form of quests and story-lines which are essentially a giant puzzle for you to work through and unlock. In single player games you finish the boss monster and either replay the exact story over again with minor variations as a different character or quit and wait for the devs to release the next version. In MMOs once you complete all the instances and have the new gear you either quit temporarily or squabble amongst yourselves until the devs release the next update with new instances and new overpowered gear to pursue.

Clearly this is a viable and profitable model for making money but there is a vast number of games out there catering to that market and no real need for yet another one. The attraction of PFO is it is NOT going that way.
HowardWdW
A thought worthy of consideration is that the lack of "starter" information is deliberate. The intent of this game is focused on the development of communities. By forcing new players to ask questions in General Chat, as frustrating as this can sometimes be, it immediately highlights the fact that you need other people to survive in the world of PFO.

I have never played another online game in which I have been an active member of a 'guild'. I always soloed my way through. The interesting thing I have found is that despite the many flaws and frustrations with PFO in its current state of development, I get drawn back to play over and over again specifically because of the community and the group play. I have gone away from time to time in these last 6 months and played some of the other games I used to play, and while the graphics, monsters, loot, etc might all be better, they end up being shallow at the final comparison because of the lack of other human involvement.

I do think GW could do a better job of describing what this game is about by highlighting this aspect of the game and telling people FROM THE OUTSET "you can not solo this game", find a community and join it.

In response to one of the OP's original points, why start in an NPC town, I would be in favor of having a system that encouraged new players to pick a settlement in which to start at character creation time based on a description of the settlement's philosophy and specializations.

Proud settlement leader in Ozem's Vigil, the only Lawful Good settlement in the game.
Baron Malthius
HowardWdW
In response to one of the OP's original points, why start in an NPC town, I would be in favor of having a system that encouraged new players to pick a settlement in which to start at character creation time based on a description of the settlement's philosophy and specializations.

+1
Giorgio
BlackDog
I did read the new player guide, which was added 2 days after I started.
I made my character as a test drive. I did not seek help needing none. I dont think I should have to ask for help, read a manual, or google a starting character in any game. If I crash in flames, I will make another and crash some more. You are inferring a complexity that I do not understand the game, and are stating the game has more to offer than what I can see.

1- I inferred nothing, I asked the same question I have been asking new players for the last 6 months; 90%+ of the time the answer I receive is "no". It is a reasonable question to ask of new players, especially those showing frustrations and/or struggling with the UI.

2- this game is not a completed and polished new player experience nor designed, as of now, to allow a new player to be able to self tech/learn to play. That level of polish is yet to arrive. Asking for help and assistance is a reasonable request.
3-the game has a lot more to offer than what you see now; every month new content and polish arrives; if you are interested in learning more the blogs are a great place to start.
First Elder Durin Steelforge; Leader of Forgeholm; Founder of Steelforge Engineering Company

PM Giorgo on Paizo Forums
PM Admin George on Commonwealth of the Free Highlands
Bringslite
@ BlackDog

"You are inferring a complexity that I do not understand the game, and are stating the game has more to offer than what I can see. "

Hi BlackDog,

If you are just jumping in on the 15 day trial and giving it only a few days (in the ways that you described) then **yes** there is complexity and more to offer than you are seeing. That isn't actually your fault. At least not completely. MMOs have trained all of us that we can do just about 99% of their content all alone if we want to and they spend millions to make sure there is plenty such content around. Sandboxes…. not so much. Oh sure, even most sandboxes already out there have more solo able content than Pathfinder Online has now.

This game isn't "finished". (No MMO- Theme Park or Sandbox ever really is). It is rough. It is still a baby. There are very few player made guides on the internet, or they are not easy to find yet. They are asking a sub to play the game. In return, you get to see it grow from inside. Your feedback DOES get read and sometimes it DOES change things in this game. You get to actually bring the world itself to life and develop it for it's later "polished public release".
*The towns that these later players visit,
*the politics that shape the "atmosphere",
*the markets to buy gear (whether they suck or are great),
*the areas that are safe or unsafe for travel or harvesting….
All of this is being shaped by us right now. Everything that we do has some affect on what will be.

I do agree with you that the new player experience needs a crap ton of work and is a serious weak point in character retention. Like anything, the less intuitive it is and the more difficult to learn fast, the fewer those that try will stay and play. GW really needs to lower that bar enough that many more are able to see beyond the starting stuff and can get a look at the "Big Picture".

For myself, that "Big Picture" was (and sometimes still is a bit) shedding that damn 20 years of conditioning that I can and WANT to play online games as a solo. I had to get over myself. That meant that I had to accept that it is much easier to work with others than alone, and (not only that) it actually benefits them and the "group" as well if I can get over my old conditioning.

Even when you play an MMO pretty much solo, there are times that you help out a new player a bit or answer a question for them, right? That feels at least a little bit good inside, doesn't it?

In this game, you can let others help you too. It is okay to let them have that little bit of a good feeling.

If you are the type that only stabs people who stab other people first, or you want nothing to do with stabbing at all, you would make a great addition to Ozem's Vigil. We are waiting for you, Brother. smile
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Unky
Plus there is one major difference between PFO and the other games you logged into. PFO is Sandbox…. the others are themepark. in sandboxes you make/find your own content. in themepark MMOs that is provided for you.

EDIT: I didn't realize there were 4 pages… my statement has probably been made already. sorry
Saiph the Fallen
I'm totally off topic here but Duffy Swiftshadow is definitely one of the coolest names in PFO.
Smitty
Hmm what can I say that already hasn’t been said…

The current game may not be for you, it is rough around the edges and is not completely intuitive in what do, especially for people starting out. Believe it or not what you went through is actually 50 times better than it was last month. And the plan is to do another iteration of tutorial improvements in the next few weeks. Your abilities you have slotted now tell you what they do against creatures (a change we asked for that was implemented). If you target something and hover over the attack, it will tell you how effective that attack will be.

If you need a reason to stay and be involved, think about all the games you pick up and play and find something that grates on you about them. If that mechanic is so ingrained in the game that the devs cannot fix it without redoing a good portion of the game, then what could have been a promising game is no longer going to interest you at all.

PFO is still young enough and small enough that the devs listen to us and read our suggestions. You want your favorite class to be able to do ____. Take up that cause and discuss it on the forums (they get read pretty much every day).

Another reason to stay and get involved, and a link about Lore and how this is Pathfinder.

The upcoming update next Friday(July 10) introduces new server wide event. The event’s main bad guy is taken directly from the emerald spire dungeon book that was put out for table top. Many complain the TT Lore is not in the game, (you aren’t getting what you thought was your TT character in digital world). Lisa did a great job explaining the carryover from the TT world to the MMO game in this post

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lhok?You-Got-Golarion-in-My-MMO#discuss
Each sprint the game gets a bit better, it doesn’t happen all at once, but they keep asking what we want next and they keep listening for the most part. How many other titles have you tried give you that kind of importance in the design of their game? It may take a year or more to get to the point you like it, if that appeals to you then stay and be a part of it. If you rather just try out the next title you find in hopes it matches everything you want in a game then good luck in your search, but I haven’t found one in 5 years of searching that holds my interest like this game does. Yet if you don’t believe in the vision of the game then it may not appeal to you at all.
Why should you and your friends get involved in a settlement? If you find a group of folks that want to recreate their TT adventures, start a company gain some influence and put up a inn( mine, ranch, lumber mill etc) somewhere, You may need to trade with folks for some resources to keep it functioning but they may need what you are producing too. If that sounds like too much work or more grindy than fun, lots of settlements out there would love to have you around to help them run one of their locations. Moving resources about, protecting them from bandits, keeping your location safe during PvP windows, as well as keeping escalations in your area in check. These are all activities that will need to be done.

There is just too much for a single character to do, and would be a full time commitment to event attempt it. You can try it but it is my belief you should think about an aspect of the game you enjoy and then specialize in that. Others will only like __ portion of the game and will work with you because you will be doing something they detest and will gladly work with you to keep them focused on what they enjoy.
 
You must be logged into an enrolled account to post