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Attribute Training

Tyveil
Currently we train attributes by purchasing feats, which often also have an attribute prerequisite. Buying a ton of feats that I never plan on using just to increase an attribute is counter-intuitive. This also leads to a system that will be difficult to add new feats to down the road as attribute bloat will occur and balance will be more and more difficult to maintain. I would like to see attribute increases handled with a separate system.

What I suggest is this:
As you gain levels in Roles, you gain attribute training points, which you can use to increase your attributes. Different races cost different amounts to train attributes. So for example, to increase Strength, it would cost less attribute training points for a Dwarf than for an Elf. Simple, elegant, intuitive, scalable.

https://pathfinderonlinecrowdforging.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Attribute-Training-via-Role-Advancement/47962-30320
Tyveil
So the idea is getting down votes but no explanations as to why. So you all like the system the way it is? In my mind it really doesn't make sense to have attributes both as a prerequisite to feats AND as something you gain by training feats, the former only makes sense. What do we currently gain by advancing our role level? I know there are likely rewards I just don't know what they are. Gaining attributes when advancing a role level seems like a great place for that reward.
TheGoodfellow
I would prefer a system more like this, than like the current build, UNLESS there are more skills put in that fit with my character and level the appropriate attributes without requiring a crafting skill or other class skills. I could work with a system like your suggesting.

As to others voting "down" for it, I think it is along the same lines why people don't want rep to be farmable and such. Your idea would suggest that leveling in a role gives you the ability to put points in to your attributes, which you are FYI, and I think "those people" feel that gives too much power to the player and would become a "work around" for some skills. I like the idea, but I also agree with you that wasting exp on skills purely for the attribute boost is pointless and counter-intuitive.
Azure_Zero
I voted it up,as it does make sense and adds to the current system.
Yrme
Tyveil
This also leads to a system that will be difficult to add new feats to down the road as attribute bloat will occur and balance will be more and more difficult to maintain.

A different way to look at that could be: a new character entering the game after it has been running for 2 years will have an easier time to increase attributes than those that entered on Day 1. Those new characters are likely going to have to keep their skills sets pretty narrow at first. Having more inexpensive options to raise attributes will help them get into the game faster.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Xeen
Yes, I agree. The current system forces me to spend points on feats/skills that I never want to use.

I dont really care for a point by system either, people will spend points on attributes that they later find out will hurt them.

What needs to happen is… Skills/feats that are class related should cover the needs of that class.
Edam
I like the current system as it encourages multi-skilling and acts as a barrier to the min-maxing power builds that are a curse in tabletop.
Kitsune
Xeen
…What needs to happen is… Skills/feats that are class related should cover the needs of that class.

Yeah, I agree with this statement. I find it frustrating that in order to advance Rogue, or example, I need to train moderately in Perception which requires Wisdom… yet nothing else in the Rogue tree gives Wisdom! I believe the only exception to this generalization is Power, which happens to train all the attributes a little bit.

Therefore, at some point in my rogue-y career, I will be required to branch-out of everything remotely Rogue-related and go pick up some Cleric domains, or some Gathering/crafting of sorts, etc. Both of these options seem rather silly, to be honest. Especially for a Rogue.

Hopefully some of the new Rogue skills (or other new general additions) that are being added in Alpha 8 will grant some Wisdom, but last I checked, Bluff is Personality (Charisma) based.
Xeen
@Edam - So you require players to multiclass in tabletop?
Kitsune
Oh lookie! from Lee's post in this other thread:
Lee Hammock
Increased the ability score gains from learning class features and increased the number of feat requirements for class features.
Hopefully, this will help alleviate some of the grief in this thread?

Edit: there's some other good stuff in that post that will probably help with this, too.
 
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