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Nothing to Fight for...

Tigari
I think if People attached themselves to a Company at the most loyal level, then when a settlement is taken down, yes alot of hard work will be burned (literally), but the company can count it's losses, and move on as a single company, or even multiple companies move to another settlement together Or even try to start their own from whatever scraps they have left.
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Doc
Honest question:

What do you guys predict will happen when real consequences for PvP [potentially] make it into the game? ie. losing an entire settlement. Clearly that is the next evolution beyond "bragging rights" or ephemeral loss of access to towers and such.

Will that invigorate a struggling game population?

Or will it lead to mass rage-quitting by the losing sides?

If the first real loss anyone suffers is the loss of a settlement, then yes, I could see some leaving based on that. However, if eased into the idea by having other lesser forms of loss felt, a level of tolerance will be developed.

Also, with the changes to training not being exclusively tied to a particular settlement, the greatest detriment to losing a settlement is no longer as severe. It was always a really bad idea to treat settlement as a social construct and to use already spent training as a chain to that settlement. It would also exasperate the downside of losing a settlement. If your access to already trained skills was tied to a settlemnt you just lost, you would have no chance of reclaiming your settlement. Companies that made up that settlement would likely fracture and disperse to other settlements, companies or leave the game.

I'm not suggesting that losing a settlement shouldn't be a significant loss. It should be and will be, a material loss and a time expenditure loss. It should not be a social loss, but a possible forced relocation, even to an NPC settlement to lick your wounds and regroup.

I am writing from experience, when in Darkfall UW, my guild (Sinister Tyrants) lost our settlement to a much larger guild. Although we had no chance of holding our settlement, outnumbered 7:1, we were able to mount a 3 week harassment campaign against them in reducinging their towers and walks to rubble and killing their members when caught in the wilderness. The loss of the settlement actually opened up the game play that many of us agreed was the most fun we had in DFUW. That would not have been possible if it were not for our keeping the skills we already trained, and also if it were not for the open world PvP that existed in DFUW.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Tigari
I think if People attached themselves to a Company at the most loyal level, then when a settlement is taken down, yes alot of hard work will be burned (literally), but the company can count it's losses, and move on as a single company, or even multiple companies move to another settlement together Or even try to start their own from whatever scraps they have left.

As I have argued with Ryan, companies are the social structure of player identification (grouping), not settlments. Settlemenrs are locations, and nothing more. When the map opens up, will companies refuse to leave where they are at and not relocate to another spot that they like better? Would anyone quit their company because their company leadership decided to relocate? That will certainly not be the case for guilds that are not solely dedicated to just PFO (ie. Pax, COTP, UNC and possible others).
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Edam
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
As I have argued with Ryan, companies are the social structure of player identification (grouping), not settlments.

That is not universally the case.

Keepers Pass is entirely Settlement based and the companies are artificial constructs based around WoT and feud dynamics and players have no real attachment to companies at all.
Rynnik
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
I am writing from experience, when in Darkfall UW, my guild (Sinister Tyrants) lost our settlement to a much larger guild.
Oh man that is funny.

Not only are your EVE credentials absent your DF group was a wash as well. Your perspective gets clearer and clearer bludd.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Edam
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
As I have argued with Ryan, companies are the social structure of player identification (grouping), not settlments.

That is not universally the case.

Keepers Pass is entirely Settlement based and the companies are artificial constructs based around WoT and feud dynamics and players have no real attachment to companies at all.

Once their training bonds are severed from the settlement, then I suppose they will be free to go where they please.

But, as always, I was being more specific to guilds that are multi game guilds (I even mentioned a few) and I did not make a blanket statement that meant a "universal case" was being stated.

Keeper's Pass sounds to be more of a proxy settlement for EBA, and it is due to its LOCATION (there is that word again) that it is being maintained as such.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Rynnik
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
I am writing from experience, when in Darkfall UW, my guild (Sinister Tyrants) lost our settlement to a much larger guild.
Oh man that is funny.

Not only are your EVE credentials absent your DF group was a wash as well. Your perspective gets clearer and clearer bludd.

I played DFUW for three months, barely had 20k prowess (not even PVP level), and that was not my guild I was just a new member. As for my EVE credentials, my PVP focused low sec pirate actually had a decent record, and the corp he was (and may still be in)is one of the highest rated PVP corps in the game (as far as low sec pirate corps go).

My supposed "absent" EVE credentials are public:

Character: Rutger Gist

Corporation: The Bastards

Alliance: The Bastards

Usually I play EVE in the summer months, but this year I'm quite busy with Albion Online (Alpha right now), Crowfall (alpha in September) and Sword Coast Legends (release in September).
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Rynnik
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Rynnik
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
I am writing from experience, when in Darkfall UW, my guild (Sinister Tyrants) lost our settlement to a much larger guild.
Oh man that is funny.

Not only are your EVE credentials absent your DF group was a wash as well. Your perspective gets clearer and clearer bludd.

I played DFUW for three months, barely had 20k prowess (not even PVP level), and that was not my guild I was just a new member. As for my EVE credentials, my PVP focused low sec pirate actually had a decent record, and the corp he was (and may still be in)is one of the highest rated PVP corps in the game (as far as low sec pirate corps go).

My supposed "absent" EVE credentials are public:

Character: Rutger Gist

Corporation: The Bastards

Alliance: The Bastards

Usually I play EVE in the summer months, but this year I'm quite busy with Albion Online (Alpha right now), Crowfall (alpha in September) and Sword Coast Legends (release in September).
I am well aware of the bastards. Azual Skoall was someone I used to fly with in my Agony Unleashed days before he went to your corp.

You had 10 kills on that character? Did you have a PvP alt or something?

You are certainly correct about not having gotten PvP viable in DF:UW though. As I said your perspective gets clearer and clearer as you really had no idea about those games at all based on that evidence.

https://zkillboard.com/character/491573466/
http://evewho.com/pilot/Rynnik
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Doc
Bludd, can you email me your referral link for AO? I'm thinking of checking it out
akmm8rs9hd@snkmail.com
(I use sneakemail for online games)
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
I really don't see you point. The PVP systems in both EvE and in DFUW are really pretty simple, and you don't needs thousands of kills to know them.

Both had zone based PvP, with other means of self flagging everywhere if you chose to. Other games that were more open world PvP were SWG (zone and flagging) and Fallen Earth (zone and flagging). I'm also alpha testing Albion Online (zone and flagging).

My perspective, if you do in fact see it clearly, is that I prefer having both zone based PvP and the means to self flag for PvP. I like for there to be both risks and rewards for PvP, and for the consequences for PvP to be attached to losing and not for simply engaging in it (with the exception of anti griefing).

I prefer small Gang PvP over large (fleet) battles. Like most who play the role of pirates / bandits, I don't look for fair fights, I look for profitable opportunities. But, as I retold in my account above, I enjoy a good fight even when I lose and those losses never sour my taste for a game or for PvP in general. The only real loss for me is boredom.

My perspective has been written openly about for nearly three years now, although most of it has been on the Paizo forums.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
 
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