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Nothing to Fight for...

Rynnik
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
I really don't see you point. The PVP systems in both EvE and in DFUW are really pretty simple, and you don't needs thousands of kills to know them.

Both had zone based PvP, with other means of self flagging everywhere if you chose to. Other games that were more open world PvP were SWG (zone and flagging) and Fallen Earth (zone and flagging). I'm also alpha testing Albion Online (zone and flagging).

My perspective, if you do in fact see it clearly, is that I prefer having both zone based PvP and the means to self flag for PvP. I like for there to be both risks and rewards for PvP, and for the consequences for PvP to be attached to losing and not for simply engaging in it (with the exception of anti griefing).

I prefer small Gang PvP over large (fleet) battles. Like most who play the role of pirates / bandits, I don't look for fair fights, I look for profitable opportunities. But, as I retold in my account above, I enjoy a good fight even when I lose and those losses never sour my taste for a game or for PvP in general. The only real loss for me is boredom.

My perspective has been written openly about for nearly three years now, although most of it has been on the Paizo forums.
Your perspective is mostly based on games you have never really played.

Sorta classic actually.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Doc
Bludd, can you email me your referral link for AO? I'm thinking of checking it out
akmm8rs9hd@snkmail.com
(I use sneakemail for online games)

Sure thing Doc
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Rynnik
Your perspective is mostly based on games you have never really played.

Sorta classic actually.

Your assumptions are based on a lack of knowledge of what I have played or how long I have played them. I've played EVE since 2004 and I've done about 80 - 90% of the activities that EVE has to offer. I've been to 0.0 space, but never really participated in big fleet sovereignty wars. But that is not the end all and be all, it is just another game style choice, I really don't like very much. The same is true for WH space, never done it, not really my bag. In EVE most of my time on main was High Sec Wardecs and Mission Running, with a dabble here and there in low sec pirating and 0.0 Stealth Bomber jumps of which I only scored one career kill, in the two jumps I did. As I said, 0.0 is not really my bag either. My main supports my alt (who used to be on a separate account, until I transferred him over to consolidate).

You are correct about my experience in DFUW, it was short. But, my knowledge of the game's PVP is not really dependent on an extensive length of time. It's PVP System is simplistic, as is EVE's.

My PVP experience in SWG, Fallen Earth and unmentioned previously Pirates of the Burning Sea, were actually quite extensive in time. Years of experience in all three, and all three have the same Zone Based + Flagging System that I have mentioned now several times.

I'm wondering if you know what I mean by zone based + self flagging, and why that is a simple system to understand?

Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Edam
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
(I even mentioned a few) and I did not make a blanket statement that meant a "universal case" was being stated.

Keeper's Pass sounds to be more of a proxy settlement for EBA, and it is due to its LOCATION (there is that word again) that it is being maintained as such.

That is your fantasy smile

EBA have always been independent settlements. Pharoas and Brighthaven were established by two totally separate outside MMO guilds and Keeper's Pass was originally setup by an EVE group who pulled out before Alpha and KP was kept going by a US mainly TT group of players. Even within EBA the three remaining settlements operate quite differently with Pharaos being the most PvP focused and the first to move to a money economy and Keepers the least PvP focused.

Even the longterm vision as to how settlements fit into the alliance/settlement/company vision is difference. Pharoas being company focused, Keepers seeing themselves as an independent settlement and Brighthaven looking more towards EBA evolving into an eventual unified multi-settlement Kingdom. The conspiracy theory that EBA is actually one large goon style organization is generally spread around by groups that are failing at recruitment and player retention to cover up their own failings.
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Edam
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
(I even mentioned a few) and I did not make a blanket statement that meant a "universal case" was being stated.

Keeper's Pass sounds to be more of a proxy settlement for EBA, and it is due to its LOCATION (there is that word again) that it is being maintained as such.

That is your fantasy smile

The conspiracy theory that EBA is actually one large goon style organization is generally spread around by groups that are failing at recruitment and player retention to cover up their own failings.

That was not really my fantasy, but the impression that I got from your description. I honestly don't think much about settlements as being social entities.

A conspiracy implies that I felt there is something wrong being done. I don't belive that.

Recruitment and retention is not a problem for UNC, we are growing in activity by leaps and bounds, but not in PFO. Sure we have picked up a few new players in recent days, but our real growth as been our in table top community and those waiting for Sword Coast Legends.

Hopefully PFO will more closely match its description in the Dev Blogs that brought most of my guild here. I'm guessing perhaps another 6 - 9 months of development.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Doc
"The conspiracy theory that EBA is actually one large goon style organization is generally spread around by groups that are failing at recruitment and player retention to cover up their own failings."

I don't know of anybody who ever thought it was that. But actually saw it as this:

"Brighthaven looking more towards EBA evolving into an eventual unified multi-settlement Kingdom."

Which is what you suggest BH wants it to be, and is what I always figured it actually was, or would ultimately be, with BH ostensibly being the de facto leader. (Pretty much the same as Xeilias with Golgotha in lead.)
Rynnik
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Rynnik
Your perspective is mostly based on games you have never really played.

Sorta classic actually.

Your assumptions are based on a lack of knowledge of what I have played or how long I have played them. I've played EVE since 2004 and I've done about 80 - 90% of the activities that EVE has to offer. I've been to 0.0 space, but never really participated in big fleet sovereignty wars. But that is not the end all and be all, it is just another game style choice, I really don't like very much. The same is true for WH space, never done it, not really my bag. In EVE most of my time on main was High Sec Wardecs and Mission Running, with a dabble here and there in low sec pirating and 0.0 Stealth Bomber jumps of which I only scored one career kill, in the two jumps I did. As I said, 0.0 is not really my bag either. My main supports my alt (who used to be on a separate account, until I transferred him over to consolidate).

You are correct about my experience in DFUW, it was short. But, my knowledge of the game's PVP is not really dependent on an extensive length of time. It's PVP System is simplistic, as is EVE's.

My PVP experience in SWG, Fallen Earth and unmentioned previously Pirates of the Burning Sea, were actually quite extensive in time. Years of experience in all three, and all three have the same Zone Based + Flagging System that I have mentioned now several times.

I'm wondering if you know what I mean by zone based + self flagging, and why that is a simple system to understand?
Pirates of the Burning Sea. Oh, well, okay then.

Or maybe you could link a pilot that actually PvP'd in EVE online since 10 kills isn't it. Not only did you not do sov war, WH fights, HS wardecing, bomber runs, low sec pirating, nor did you do suicide ganking, station camping, low sec gate camping, 0.0 rape cages, NPC Null, RvB, Alliance Tournament, FW plexing, solo, or any other type of EVE PvP for meaningful lengths of time. Did you mean to say you thought about that stuff while you ran level 4s over and over?

I've read lots of your Paizo stuff and posts on other boards as well, and while I started out thinking as someone with an EVE background etc your well broadcasted opinions might have some meat to them, but it became increasingly obvious to me you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Hopefully being able to check into your background now, new readers won't fall into the same trap, and will immediately identify that you are way out of your depth making claims such as PFO and EVE having nothing in common when you really haven't PvP'd in either game.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Elsworth Sugarfoot
I don't think changing one area to rep-free would do anything. People would still need a reason to go there.
Decius
This thread was doing so well. Let's try to keep the server politics out of it please.

Right now there hasn't been any reward for winning strategic objectives that is inherently worth the cost of the engagement. Training and support are nice, but frankly not worth the losses incurred by winning opposed tower battles, to say nothing of the complex sum-product u(win)p(win)+u(lose)p(lose)

So far the fights have been for a combination of fun and prestige. Hopefully we can get PvP where things that are important but not critical hang in the balance. What kinds of things could that be? Is it too late for some settlement-level crafting component to be rare and only available at known times and places?
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Rynnik
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Rynnik
Your perspective is mostly based on games you have never really played.

Sorta classic actually.

Your assumptions are based on a lack of knowledge of what I have played or how long I have played them. I've played EVE since 2004 and I've done about 80 - 90% of the activities that EVE has to offer. I've been to 0.0 space, but never really participated in big fleet sovereignty wars. But that is not the end all and be all, it is just another game style choice, I really don't like very much. The same is true for WH space, never done it, not really my bag. In EVE most of my time on main was High Sec Wardecs and Mission Running, with a dabble here and there in low sec pirating and 0.0 Stealth Bomber jumps of which I only scored one career kill, in the two jumps I did. As I said, 0.0 is not really my bag either. My main supports my alt (who used to be on a separate account, until I transferred him over to consolidate).

You are correct about my experience in DFUW, it was short. But, my knowledge of the game's PVP is not really dependent on an extensive length of time. It's PVP System is simplistic, as is EVE's.

My PVP experience in SWG, Fallen Earth and unmentioned previously Pirates of the Burning Sea, were actually quite extensive in time. Years of experience in all three, and all three have the same Zone Based + Flagging System that I have mentioned now several times.

I'm wondering if you know what I mean by zone based + self flagging, and why that is a simple system to understand?
Pirates of the Burning Sea. Oh, well, okay then.

Or maybe you could link a pilot that actually PvP'd in EVE online since 10 kills isn't it. Not only did you not do sov war, WH fights, HS wardecing, bomber runs, low sec pirating, nor did you do suicide ganking, station camping, low sec gate camping, 0.0 rape cages, NPC Null, RvB, Alliance Tournament, FW plexing, solo, or any other type of EVE PvP for meaningful lengths of time. Did you mean to say you thought about that stuff while you ran level 4s over and over?

I've read lots of your Paizo stuff and posts on other boards as well, and while I started out thinking as someone with an EVE background etc your well broadcasted opinions might have some meat to them, but it became increasingly obvious to me you really have no idea what you are talking about.

Hopefully being able to check into your background now, new readers won't fall into the same trap, and will immediately identify that you are way out of your depth making claims such as PFO and EVE having nothing in common when you really haven't PvP'd in either game.

Are you claiming that PFO has anything close to those forms of Pvp?

I also forgot to mention MechWarrior Online, which is nothing but 8v8 and now I believe 12v12 PvP, which is about as tactical as PvP can get (unless you are facing or using the flavor of the month chassis).

But I ask you again, do you understand what the combination of zone based PvP and self flagging would do for the game? Do you understand why I keep on bringing it up, based on the MMOs I have mentioned?

Most MMOs have either zone based, self flagging or both forms of PvP.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
 
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