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Taking a break - rant

Kitsune
Doc, I certainly agree. Indeed, without the holdings/settlements/warfare features and game-loops you describe, PFO would just be another lousy clone of some-other-popular MMO on the market. You're definitely spot-on, but I must provide a partial counter-argument.

These social features/aspects of the game should still have come first; they should have been implemented during Alpha, or even pre-Alpha (y'know, the "real" Alpha). As Jakaal said with different words, I believe these sorts of elements are MVP for an MMO.

I believe part of the failure here was that the chat system we had at the end of Alpha (nearly identical to what we have now, and only included a couple different channels and whispering capability) was deemed to be "MVP" by GW's leadership. And I'm saying that I disagree with that decision.
Doc
Yeah, I think what was deemed MVP was way off, but the market can and has determined that to a degree.

In web development industry, some people use the term "Minimum Lovable Product" as an alternative to "Minimum Viable Product". I think for a medium that depends so much on a good User Experience or UX, it is a much better way to speak in context to deliverables. If people don't love it, they're unlikely to use it, that applies just as much (indeed more) to games as it does to websites.
Jakaal
There are just so many aspects of the game that are far to minimal for me. Chat isn't good enough and being forced to use a 3rd party voice program to even have an idea who is online (if they even log in to it, I know I often have no interest using voice chat) is terrible in my opinion. I also think the auction houses that are in the game are still well short of effectively useful.
Daeglin
In game communication is a major low priority to me, given the third party options available. Must just be a personal preference or perhaps what you're used to from play style in other games. My guilds (at least the ones that were successful) always relied on third party products as the communication of choice. The type of play I would engage in made in game communication impractical and inadvisable. An exception would be a Message of the Day. And that usually just directed people to the outside communication again smile

In game communication will not solve settlements who are currently having problems communicating with their members, IMHO, and should remain low priority compared to the multiple other areas demanding attention.
Good… Bad… I'm the guy with the bow.
Edam
Voice comms are only useful if you have a single voice chat used by everyone in your group. Single settlements are fine as probably are autocratic alliances like EoS.

I have no idea how Coal Road etc function but EBA is far more anarchic and every settlement does there own thing with at least three separate voice chats meaning even if half your settlement is on they may be in an allied chat doing ops and you have to waste time looking around. I get the impression there are even some companies in game that have separate voice chat.
Daeglin
Edam
Voice comms are only useful if you have a single voice chat used by everyone in your group. Single settlements are fine as probably are autocratic alliances like EoS.

I have no idea how Coal Road etc function but EBA is far more anarchic and every settlement does there own thing with at least three separate voice chats meaning even if half your settlement is on they may be in an allied chat doing ops and you have to waste time looking around. I get the impression there are even some companies in game that have separate voice chat.

But if you have players who are "opting out" of email, pm's, 3rd party settlement website forums, voice & text chat clients; as well as the GW forums, and very basic chat in game, aren't they likely to continue to "opt out" when in game settlement chat and friends lists are implemented? One of the most common requests I foresee when friend lists come out, will be those who want to block their appearance on them. I do think these functions need to be available at some point, I just argue there are many other issues still ahead of them in priority.
Good… Bad… I'm the guy with the bow.
Kitsune
It's certainly understandable that more "hardcore" players would most definitely always rely on external programs/means to communicate, most often by voice, of course. And that's fine.

But this problem of the lack of basic community elements is not a problem for most of us posting here in the forums. Most of us here [that are left] will gladly rely on Teamspeak/Mumble.

This problem is more for casual and semi-casual players. And even those of us "hardcore" players that don't necessarily wish to jump on Teamspeak/Mumble every single time we login to the game and perhaps want to know if our buddies are doing stuff also.

If I were to sit and think for longer, I could come up with countless other scenarios and reasons why these sorts of tools are essential (MVP) for MMO's and just about any multiplayer game in general.
Edam
Daeglin
But if you have players who are "opting out" of email, pm's, 3rd party settlement website forums, voice & text chat clients; as well as the GW forums, and very basic chat in game, aren't they likely to continue to "opt out" when in game settlement chat and friends lists are implemented? One of the most common requests I foresee when friend lists come out, will be those who want to block their appearance on them. I do think these functions need to be available at some point, I just argue there are many other issues still ahead of them in priority.

Yes and no.

Regardless of other tools being able to instantly see who is online and whisper them to see what is happening is very useful.

Also, given that people are rarely in town when online I see the ability to see who is currently online from your company settlement as an essential management tool.

It allows you to:
- spot when new members are online and contact them to see if they need help or invite them to go do stuff as a party
- spot people you have items waiting to transfer/trade to such as mats for a craft job
- monitor member activity and reward active members if need be (even if by just a mention in forums)
- in the hopefully rare case of stuff going missing or problems you have more chance of knowing who was online

Kitsune
All exceptional examples, Edam, thanks for contributing.
Rynnik
Edam
Daeglin
But if you have players who are "opting out" of email, pm's, 3rd party settlement website forums, voice & text chat clients; as well as the GW forums, and very basic chat in game, aren't they likely to continue to "opt out" when in game settlement chat and friends lists are implemented? One of the most common requests I foresee when friend lists come out, will be those who want to block their appearance on them. I do think these functions need to be available at some point, I just argue there are many other issues still ahead of them in priority.

Yes and no.

Regardless of other tools being able to instantly see who is online and whisper them to see what is happening is very useful.

Also, given that people are rarely in town when online I see the ability to see who is currently online from your company settlement as an essential management tool.

It allows you to:
- spot when new members are online and contact them to see if they need help or invite them to go do stuff as a party
- spot people you have items waiting to transfer/trade to such as mats for a craft job
- monitor member activity and reward active members if need be (even if by just a mention in forums)
- in the hopefully rare case of stuff going missing or problems you have more chance of knowing who was online
All of that stuff can easily and should be handled out of game with the exception of the last which shouldn't be a problem anyhow once good bank logging is implemented.

Out of curiosity is there ANY problem you folks are willing to try and solve in house without demanding that GW program you are workaround wasting their resources?

Communication in game is redundant. Games that have it don't use it anyways. The third party applications are way too strong and plentiful to be able to compete with them so just let them do their job and anyone who wants to can pick up whatever capability they need customized for there specific group.
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