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Taking a break - rant

Kitsune
RexTerra
The lack of in-game information neuters the efficacy of any 3rd party program. Hobson's points are valid: it is obnoxious to go onto TS in a large guild and start asking if anyone is in a particular settlement: that is what in-game tools are for. A 3rd party program cannot fill the void for information it has absolutely no access to.

In the most tactically planned MMO groups I've ever gamed with, in-game communication was still a vital component of our plans.

Moreover, it is essential for more casual players to have access to in-game tools to directly communicate.
[…]

Exactly some of my points! Yes, 3rd-party tools are available. Yes, they are typically way more efficient for many situations (e.g. using Mumble during large PvP fights, escalations, whatever). But for everyday stuff, in-game tools and communication channels are often the best tool for the job - and I mean that. And in the cases of newbie players (who might not even know anything about Mumble or TeamSpeak or whathaveyou), in-game communications are going to be the absolute best and most effective way to communicate regularly with these people.

And, to add to some of the points above: without them, it would feel like a ghost town to new players. Of course us veterans can't see that, because we're so deeply involved in the community, we already use these 3rd party tools, and we frankly know where and when to look for people to chill with. Again, new players don't typically know this stuff. And they often leave long before they'd figure it out. And that's bad.

Now, to get back to one of the more fundamental things I wanted to talk about in this post:

In before Lisa/Ryan chime-in, saying, "settlement chat is coming in 10.2!" …

Okay, great. But I would honestly much rather see a friends list, alongside some sort of offline/online indicator (both in friends list and company windows), and perhaps I'm asking too much for a goddamn "whisper" button next to their name.

All this stuff is, again, stuff we'd expect in an MMO from 2001 - just as mentioned a couple posts back. This kind of stuff is absolutely a must for an MVP MMO. Period. I can't see any question about it. The abilities to whisper someone and to chat in a general/help chat, and chat locally are not MVP by themselves.



Okay, yes, we're all adults here. Some of you, especially veterans and experienced players, will disagree, saying that developer-time should not be "wasted" on these things, because you believe that these don't affect you. Well, I believe you are wrong - this does affect you. If we keep losing new players due to "stupid little stuff" like this, then it will absolutely hurt the game's development. Yeah, the game might not fail due to a lack of these elements, but if it suffers too much more, we could start losing developers (or at least cease to gain any more), and development could start getting delayed. And yes, in-turn, this could ultimately cause the demise of the game. Yes: could, might, could, etc… I know how I sound right now, no need to point it out.

My apologies for ranting on and on, and probably sounding a bit childish while doing so. I'm just really passionate for this game, and only in the last month or two have I seen the growing need for development of social features.
Daeglin
I hear you. I just disagree. And I in no way consider myself a veteran of MMOs.
Good… Bad… I'm the guy with the bow.
Doc
I think it's probably been mentioned or suggested before, but the need for these social tools is probably different across various groups in game.

For example, the EoX people don't really need them because they have their own Shoutbox chat page that they use for asyonchronous socializing, and a TeamSpeak server which they all are essentially required to use, but they all would seem to use it anyway. They come from an organized gaming background so it's like second nature.

Other groups might have a majority of players who don't come from that kind of background, and so relying on those tools might seem foreign to them. In those groups, not having the in-game social tools will be and is a big hurdle.

It might be helpful it GW ran a survey on that kind of thing, if they haven't already.
Hobson Fiffledown
Sorry about that, I had some important things to attend to (making sweet and smokey BBQ salmon with fresh croutons, spring greens, avo, bacon and tomatoes, with an apple cider viniagrette…that stuff isn't just going to make itself from scratch), projects blowing up in two different time zones, neither of which I am currently in, and a road trip to prep for tomorrow.

Short of it is, settlement chat is soon on its way. I feel it should have been much, much sooner. I've been playing online games since telnet and have always had the options of third party communication solutions (even if it was just yelling across the hall), however this is the first game I've ever been forced to use those solutions because of a lack of even basic options. But I'd be fine going over the answer to the question Rynnik posed to me (gosh, I'm a sucker for a good question). It will have to wait a couple of days though. Drunken midnight debates, while even more fun than regular ones, aren't in the cards tonight. Until then, Cheers.
This space for rent.
Rynnik
Settlement chat is great, not at all sad about it coming in. It isn't like out of game communications options stop at mumble though. Jabber, IRC, have you played with the curse voice friends lists and online indicators? The options out there are impressive and maybe you HAVE examined and discarded options like that but your posts indicate you haven't looked beyond voice programs like mumble. If that is the case you haven't even scratched the surface and I have no sympathy.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Hobson Fiffledown
'My posts indicate that I haven't looked beyond voice programs like Mumble'? No, no they don't. That's the only sentence in that post that says anything, so let's look at that. I've never said there aren't a bevy of third party options, I never represented myself as only using mumble either. Not only is there no indication, all of my posts speak to the contrary. What you have done here is phrased an opinion (in support of a point you are now arguing which is different from the point we are talking about…but somewhat related), while strongly implying that it is fact (possibly because of miscomprehension, however I actually give you benefit of the doubt on this. Your negotiation technique, which you're happy with and has been proven to you to work with metrics and thingys and in other internets, is generally effective, and pretty common). The if statement at the end is clutch. Let's see how Trump would do it -

[Platitudes, platitudes, pander, pander. Ancillary information. …indicating, beyond any doubt, that candidate B Is a terrorist. If that's the case, then candidate A is simply a horrible choice and hates America.]

Does it work? Most of the time. Is it a valid argument? No.

All of that aside, I hope you know that I'm only criticizing your argument style, and not trying to get personal or anything. You seem like a stand-up person. You add quite a bit to the game, and I agree with you more often than not on game mechanic issues. But, like I said, when my statements get misused, I have a responsibility to defend those statements or I am complicit in, even supporting, the redefining and misuse of those statements. Have at others all you would like, sir. smile

I'd apologize for hijacking the thread even more…but the OP is on break.
This space for rent.
Brighthaven Leader
Here is the issue:

A lot of people have to be eased into third party software, its easier to do that when you have social tools in the game already. In-game social tools aren't as efficient as 3rd party, or as cool or functional, but they do have their uses, and are helpful in all manner of ways.

If this game were an EVE clone, or a something like Crowfall, or any other Sandbox, most people would be on Vent or TS within seconds of applying to someone's guild, but its not, and its not even advertising to a majority of those experienced gamers. What we have here is a community of people where this might be their first MMO, or the first MMO that has required an extraordinary amount of coordination not seen in other MMOs.

The ability to ease them into the situation would help retention and the game as whole, and to do that social tools are required.

Ask Auriga and Silver, they finally bit the bullet and started using voice comms, drastically changed most aspects of the game for them in a positive way.
Brighthaven is a Neutral Good settlement focused on defending its citizens and its allies from negative fringe based PvP (Player Killing and Griefing) while striving to become a large and shining beacon for Good. Whether you wish to benefit from this protection or you love PvP and wish to assist in providing this protection, Brighthaven aims to be the home and support center for you!
Rynnik
Hobson Fiffledown
'My posts indicate that I haven't looked beyond voice programs like Mumble'? No, no they don't. That's the only sentence in that post that says anything, so let's look at that. I've never said there aren't a bevy of third party options, I never represented myself as only using mumble either. Not only is there no indication, all of my posts speak to the contrary. What you have done here is phrased an opinion (in support of a point you are now arguing which is different from the point we are talking about…but somewhat related), while strongly implying that it is fact (possibly because of miscomprehension, however I actually give you benefit of the doubt on this. Your negotiation technique, which you're happy with and has been proven to you to work with metrics and thingys and in other internets, is generally effective, and pretty common). The if statement at the end is clutch. Let's see how Trump would do it -

[Platitudes, platitudes, pander, pander. Ancillary information. …indicating, beyond any doubt, that candidate B Is a terrorist. If that's the case, then candidate A is simply a horrible choice and hates America.]

Does it work? Most of the time. Is it a valid argument? No.

All of that aside, I hope you know that I'm only criticizing your argument style, and not trying to get personal or anything. You seem like a stand-up person. You add quite a bit to the game, and I agree with you more often than not on game mechanic issues. But, like I said, when my statements get misused, I have a responsibility to defend those statements or I am complicit in, even supporting, the redefining and misuse of those statements. Have at others all you would like, sir. smile

I'd apologize for hijacking the thread even more…but the OP is on break.
The mumble part was addressed to Kitsune obviously. Sorry for your well constructed post going to waste. P.s. I don't follow 'Merican politics sorry.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Jakaal
My point is that 3rd party comms are a good supplement but are not a replacement. What is currently in game is not sufficient to me.
Brighthaven Leader
+1 Jakaal
Brighthaven is a Neutral Good settlement focused on defending its citizens and its allies from negative fringe based PvP (Player Killing and Griefing) while striving to become a large and shining beacon for Good. Whether you wish to benefit from this protection or you love PvP and wish to assist in providing this protection, Brighthaven aims to be the home and support center for you!
 
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