Golgotha ... meh

Elmin Sterro 07.14.2015 14:40
	Doc Smitty, Many ways to deal with the issues .. Changing their own behavior would be tacit acceptance of the status quo, which by all of the points brought up by the complainants suggest they are in opposition to. They don't want to change their own behavior, they want EoX to change their behavior. The same could be said of every conflict ever. Quote

Decius 07.14.2015 14:40
	Rynnik Decius When bandits can attack merchants the way feuding companies can attack each other, I bet that bandits will hang out in locations where merchants log in. If only merchants had some sort of control over where they log in. Allow me to use my crayolas - that location relates to where they previously logged out. If they log out on top of the tavern, bandits will hang out on top of the tavern. Playing "log out somewhere where faction PvP players won't guess where you logged out" isn't for every faction member. Quote

Decius 07.14.2015 14:40

Rynnik
Decius
When bandits can attack merchants the way feuding companies can attack each other, I bet that bandits will hang out in locations where merchants log in.
If only merchants had some sort of control over where they log in.

Allow me to use my crayolas - that location relates to where they previously logged out.

If they log out on top of the tavern, bandits will hang out on top of the tavern. Playing "log out somewhere where faction PvP players won't guess where you logged out" isn't for every faction member.

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Doc 07.14.2015 14:41
	If anything, the bandit will be waiting outside of the settlement waiting for the merchant to try to haul some goods. I would actually have a second account alt in town watching activity, and only gank the merchant once they were more than two hexes away from town, so as to assure I'd have enough time to pursue and capture if they tried to run back home to guard safety. Quote

Tigari 07.14.2015 14:41
	Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon Doc players should be able to play with the group of people with whom they desire to play. I'm pretty sure they can. They just can't do that and not have to deal with any consequences stemming from something their friends got mixed up in. I think people are just saying if that reality is not doable, then there are other places to live in game where those consequences are not an issue. +1 This is exactly the negative feedback loop Nihimon used to pose all the time. He applied it to negative reputation characters first, but then once he realized that rep could be gamed, he applied it to negative meta reputation. Essentially it is guilt by association, which seemed to be fine when it was AGC's actions being tied to Aragon, but not when EBA's leadership (and I think it is particularly TSV's leadership) has created a meta game reputation through in-game actions that has resulted in the Forever War. New recruits being caught off guard by the unrevealed war status have only one source to blame. Veteran players who have become war weary, have just one source to appeal to. This is not an issue of a new player not expecting the game to be overrun by PvP. It is an issue of a new player being mislead or not realizing there are alternative settlements to join if they wish to be safer. There was also a point where EoX tried to assist with informing new players. We would occationaly post something about the war, and war people that if they are caught in the area, they may be suspect to assisting..and a liable target (before Feuds). During this time, people just complained that we were trying to "scare" away new recruits. I see the way it may seem that way (easily done), but we were really just trying to inform MANY of the players who don't come to these forums of the sitiuation.. you know, cut down on the randomness. Golgotha has never really been into the "random PK-ing" alot of people blame us for. We've just been playing the game with the cards(mechanics) dealt to us. Quote

Tigari 07.14.2015 14:41

Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Doc
players should be able to play with the group of people with whom they desire to play.

I'm pretty sure they can. They just can't do that and not have to deal with any consequences stemming from something their friends got mixed up in.

I think people are just saying if that reality is not doable, then there are other places to live in game where those consequences are not an issue.

+1

This is exactly the negative feedback loop Nihimon used to pose all the time. He applied it to negative reputation characters first, but then once he realized that rep could be gamed, he applied it to negative meta reputation. Essentially it is guilt by association, which seemed to be fine when it was AGC's actions being tied to Aragon, but not when EBA's leadership (and I think it is particularly TSV's leadership) has created a meta game reputation through in-game actions that has resulted in the Forever War.

New recruits being caught off guard by the unrevealed war status have only one source to blame. Veteran players who have become war weary, have just one source to appeal to.

This is not an issue of a new player not expecting the game to be overrun by PvP. It is an issue of a new player being mislead or not realizing there are alternative settlements to join if they wish to be safer.

There was also a point where EoX tried to assist with informing new players. We would occationaly post something about the war, and war people that if they are caught in the area, they may be suspect to assisting..and a liable target (before Feuds). During this time, people just complained that we were trying to "scare" away new recruits. I see the way it may seem that way (easily done), but we were really just trying to inform MANY of the players who don't come to these forums of the sitiuation.. you know, cut down on the randomness.

Golgotha has never really been into the "random PK-ing" alot of people blame us for. We've just been playing the game with the cards(mechanics) dealt to us.

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Tigari 07.14.2015 14:42
	double post Quote

Rynnik 07.14.2015 14:42
	Decius Playing "log out somewhere where faction PvP players won't guess where you logged out" isn't for every faction member. Those ones better hope you aren't part of the leadership of their player organization then. Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance. Quote

Doc 07.14.2015 14:43
	Playing "log out somewhere where faction PvP players won't guess where you logged out" isn't for every faction member. Then don't join said faction? Goblin Works has specifically said, please prove me wrong I don't want to spread false info, that joining a faction is a purposeful thing which overtly and knowingly exposes you to more rep-free PvP. Quote

Decius 07.14.2015 14:50
	Doc Playing "log out somewhere where faction PvP players won't guess where you logged out" isn't for every faction member. Then don't join said faction? Goblin Works has specifically said, please prove me wrong I don't want to spread false info, that joining a faction is a purposeful thing which overtly and knowingly exposes you to more rep-free PvP. "X would be awesome" leading to "nobody does x" is the dynamic here. Permitting killing people in town and during login leads to nobody being high rank in the merchant faction. I want faction PvP to be popular and lots of people to be highly engaged with it. That's why I'm trying to create a community where when a character logs in in front of their enemies they get a three second head start. (Among a few other things). Quote

Decius 07.14.2015 14:50

Doc
Playing "log out somewhere where faction PvP players won't guess where you logged out" isn't for every faction member.

Then don't join said faction?

Goblin Works has specifically said, please prove me wrong I don't want to spread false info, that joining a faction is a purposeful thing which overtly and knowingly exposes you to more rep-free PvP.

"X would be awesome" leading to "nobody does x" is the dynamic here.

Permitting killing people in town and during login leads to nobody being high rank in the merchant faction.

I want faction PvP to be popular and lots of people to be highly engaged with it. That's why I'm trying to create a community where when a character logs in in front of their enemies they get a three second head start. (Among a few other things).

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Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon 07.14.2015 14:50
	Decius When bandits can attack merchants the way feuding companies can attack each other, I bet that bandits will hang out in locations where merchants log in. No one who is at risk of PvP should have a predictable login location. Do you believe well known bandits will login at a location named "Bandit Spawn Site"? Of course not, I'd expect they will use half a brain cell and logout and log back in again where they would not be expected to. The gane community, and particularly the Developers, should not have to suffer compensating for the actions of fools. Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold. Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP Quote

Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon 07.14.2015 14:50

Decius
When bandits can attack merchants the way feuding companies can attack each other, I bet that bandits will hang out in locations where merchants log in.

No one who is at risk of PvP should have a predictable login location. Do you believe well known bandits will login at a location named "Bandit Spawn Site"? Of course not, I'd expect they will use half a brain cell and logout and log back in again where they would not be expected to.

The gane community, and particularly the Developers, should not have to suffer compensating for the actions of fools.

Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP

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Smitty 07.14.2015 14:55
	Doc Smitty, Many ways to deal with the issues .. Changing their own behavior would be tacit acceptance of the status quo, which by all of the points brought up by the complaintents suggest they are in opposition to. They don't want to change their own behavior, they want EoX to change their behavior. Doc, Changing EoX behavior is really easy! Have their leaders talk to Phyllain. If Phyllain and them agree on ____________. Phyllain tells us don’t do ____________. We don’t do ___________. Quote

Smitty 07.14.2015 14:55

Doc
Smitty,

Many ways to deal with the issues ..

Changing their own behavior would be tacit acceptance of the status quo, which by all of the points brought up by the complaintents suggest they are in opposition to.

They don't want to change their own behavior, they want EoX to change their behavior.

Doc,
Changing EoX behavior is really easy!
Have their leaders talk to Phyllain.
If Phyllain and them agree on ____________.

Phyllain tells us don’t do ____________.

We don’t do ___________.

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