Golgotha ... meh

Bringslite 07.16.2015 15:16
	@ Ryan I think that just having "A" system has helped somewhat. The most credit probably leans more toward: 1. A vast map with a low total pop and a poor population density dispersion. 2. A numerous enemy that is nearby. Apparently one that tastes like chocolate or <insert irresistible food here like Braaaainnns!!!> 3. Some mechanics are now in play to help avoid rep loss. Cause you see, whenever it was Too Hot down south, There was increased penalizing PVP in the north area of the map. No one (not many is better) let reputation stop them from doing anything. Now that there are tools to avoid rep loss, the PVP is (of course) gravitating to that aspect (mostly). PVP rep penalties might seem steep (to some) when it is done either in a skirmish situation (lots of targets) or done a lot in a short time frame. There is a gap between what some think is enough penalty and what some think is too much leeway. That will be a hard thing to shake off. Likely for all sides. Honestly, for the majority of the map (I can't say majority of the pop) this has been a very tame Open PVP game from the start. Virtute et Armis -Unknown Quote

Bringslite 07.16.2015 15:16

@ Ryan

I think that just having "A" system has helped somewhat. The most credit probably leans more toward:

1. A vast map with a low total pop and a poor population density dispersion.
2. A numerous enemy that is nearby. Apparently one that tastes like chocolate or <insert irresistible food here like Braaaainnns!!!>
3. Some mechanics are now in play to help avoid rep loss.

Cause you see, whenever it was Too Hot down south, There was increased penalizing PVP in the north area of the map. No one (not many is better) let reputation stop them from doing anything. Now that there are tools to avoid rep loss, the PVP is (of course) gravitating to that aspect (mostly).

PVP rep penalties might seem steep (to some) when it is done either in a skirmish situation (lots of targets) or done a lot in a short time frame. There is a gap between what some think is enough penalty and what some think is too much leeway. That will be a hard thing to shake off. Likely for all sides.

Honestly, for the majority of the map (I can't say majority of the pop) this has been a very tame Open PVP game from the start.

Virtute et Armis
-Unknown

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Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon 07.16.2015 15:18
	Ryan Dancey I think the reputation system is exactly why we don't have a server that degenerated into a murder simulator. Maybe you guys don't really see it but the amount of meaningless PvP in this game is minute. Almost every game I've watched over the years has degenerated almost instantly into meaningless PvP. Yet we have not. The small population, made up primarily of long term kickstarters and 14 day trial accounts plays a significant role in this as well. The veterans have figured out ways of avoiding rep hits, have the influence to feud, or are avoiding PvP all together. The 14 day trials are gimped the most by negative rep and so either avoid taking the rep hit by avoiding PvP or reroll their temporary characters after they realize they are gimped for 6 or more days. I'm not saying the rep system is not working, it just needs to be put into full context. If PFO had 5000+ active players, there might be a very different view of the rep system, as well as many others. Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold. Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP Quote

Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon 07.16.2015 15:18

Ryan Dancey
I think the reputation system is exactly why we don't have a server that degenerated into a murder simulator.

Maybe you guys don't really see it but the amount of meaningless PvP in this game is minute. Almost every game I've watched over the years has degenerated almost instantly into meaningless PvP. Yet we have not.

The small population, made up primarily of long term kickstarters and 14 day trial accounts plays a significant role in this as well. The veterans have figured out ways of avoiding rep hits, have the influence to feud, or are avoiding PvP all together. The 14 day trials are gimped the most by negative rep and so either avoid taking the rep hit by avoiding PvP or reroll their temporary characters after they realize they are gimped for 6 or more days.

I'm not saying the rep system is not working, it just needs to be put into full context. If PFO had 5000+ active players, there might be a very different view of the rep system, as well as many others.

Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP

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Midnight 07.16.2015 15:44
	Saiph the Fallen Doc Just think of it this way, if a large murder-hobo-greifing guild came to Pathfinder Online. There would be nothing to stop them from murdering everything and everyone everywhere. There is no disincentive to not be a murder-hobo. This is not intended. Sure there is. It caused SENSOU to quit the game. Are you intentionally just not going to agree with me? I think he made a very good point. The main deterrent, though is in controlling NEW players, since their training is vital and frequent. Reputation has EoX warning our new players over and over again to be careful about their rep. He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper. -Edmund Burke Quote

Midnight 07.16.2015 15:44

Saiph the Fallen
Doc
Just think of it this way, if a large murder-hobo-greifing guild came to Pathfinder Online. There would be nothing to stop them from murdering everything and everyone everywhere. There is no disincentive to not be a murder-hobo. This is not intended.

Sure there is. It caused SENSOU to quit the game.

Are you intentionally just not going to agree with me?

I think he made a very good point.

The main deterrent, though is in controlling NEW players, since their training is vital and frequent.

Reputation has EoX warning our new players over and over again to be careful about their rep.

He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke

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Ryan Dancey 07.16.2015 15:49
CEO	I get communications from players on a regular basis which look essentially like this: I want open world PvP where I can kill anyone I want anytime I want and I don't want consequences. Your game inflicts a consequence on me when I do that and its intolerable. I'll never play this game. You are all living in a world that is the net beneficiary of the Reputation system. As I suspected and hoped the imposition of character-level penalties for meaningless PvP robs the "fun" of it and a number of folks who wanted a murder simulation can't tolerate that penalty and quit. All the rest of you play in a world they abandoned. Reputation system working as intended. Some of you are playing in a world where you get PvP action every day. But, come on, we all know that a big driver of that is social activities by your own companions (or yourselves). You keep poking each other then acting shocked to discover there's PvP consequences and that the people you poke won't let you have the last word/last action. You're doing it to yourselves and that's not an artifact of a failed Rep system. Quote

Ryan Dancey 07.16.2015 15:49

CEO

I get communications from players on a regular basis which look essentially like this:

I want open world PvP where I can kill anyone I want anytime I want and I don't want consequences. Your game inflicts a consequence on me when I do that and its intolerable. I'll never play this game.

You are all living in a world that is the net beneficiary of the Reputation system. As I suspected and hoped the imposition of character-level penalties for meaningless PvP robs the "fun" of it and a number of folks who wanted a murder simulation can't tolerate that penalty and quit. All the rest of you play in a world they abandoned.

Reputation system working as intended.

Some of you are playing in a world where you get PvP action every day. But, come on, we all know that a big driver of that is social activities by your own companions (or yourselves). You keep poking each other then acting shocked to discover there's PvP consequences and that the people you poke won't let you have the last word/last action. You're doing it to yourselves and that's not an artifact of a failed Rep system.

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Phyllain 07.16.2015 15:52
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Midnight 07.16.2015 16:00
	He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper. -Edmund Burke Quote

Dreamslinger 07.16.2015 16:09
	Ryan Dancey Some of you are playing in a world where you get PvP action every day. But, come on, we all know that a big driver of that is social activities by your own companions (or yourselves). You keep poking each other then acting shocked to discover there's PvP consequences and that the people you poke won't let you have the last word/last action. You're doing it to yourselves and that's not an artifact of a failed Rep system. #micdrop Quote

Dreamslinger 07.16.2015 16:09

Ryan Dancey
Some of you are playing in a world where you get PvP action every day. But, come on, we all know that a big driver of that is social activities by your own companions (or yourselves). You keep poking each other then acting shocked to discover there's PvP consequences and that the people you poke won't let you have the last word/last action. You're doing it to yourselves and that's not an artifact of a failed Rep system.

#micdrop

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Rynnik 07.16.2015 16:11
	Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance. Quote

Drogon 07.16.2015 16:28
	Ryan Dancey Some of you are playing in a world where you get PvP action every day. But, come on, we all know that a big driver of that is social activities by your own companions (or yourselves). You keep poking each other then acting shocked to discover there's PvP consequences and that the people you poke won't let you have the last word/last action. You're doing it to yourselves and that's not an artifact of a failed Rep system. Consequences and poking are not that fulfilling if ultimately there are no mechanics in the game that allow us to win by forcing our opponent to sue for peace or degrade their abilities to attack us if we just want to be left alone to PVE, craft and gather. If it has no long or even short term meaning than the fun some are having with PVP will eventually wear off and people will leave the game directly because of this. Are you just hoping for more new players than current dedicated subscribers staying with the game? Are you hoping that when war mechanics enter the game most of us will still be here to experience the difference? It seemed in his chat last night that Lee felt their wasn't enough reputation loss at the moment and something needed to be done to fix that. It sounds like you are of a different mindset? HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. " Quote

Drogon 07.16.2015 16:28

Ryan Dancey
Some of you are playing in a world where you get PvP action every day. But, come on, we all know that a big driver of that is social activities by your own companions (or yourselves). You keep poking each other then acting shocked to discover there's PvP consequences and that the people you poke won't let you have the last word/last action. You're doing it to yourselves and that's not an artifact of a failed Rep system.

Consequences and poking are not that fulfilling if ultimately there are no mechanics in the game that allow us to win by forcing our opponent to sue for peace or degrade their abilities to attack us if we just want to be left alone to PVE, craft and gather. If it has no long or even short term meaning than the fun some are having with PVP will eventually wear off and people will leave the game directly because of this. Are you just hoping for more new players than current dedicated subscribers staying with the game? Are you hoping that when war mechanics enter the game most of us will still be here to experience the difference? It seemed in his chat last night that Lee felt their wasn't enough reputation loss at the moment and something needed to be done to fix that. It sounds like you are of a different mindset?

HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. "

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Rynnik 07.16.2015 16:31
	Drogon It seemed in his chat last night that Lee felt their wasn't enough reputation loss at the moment and something needed to be done to fix that. I think you really need to go listen to Lee again because you definitely didn't hear Lee say what I heard then. Lee said there was no sense of danger being out in the world for him and that wasn't the intent. Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance. Quote

Rynnik 07.16.2015 16:31

Drogon
It seemed in his chat last night that Lee felt their wasn't enough reputation loss at the moment and something needed to be done to fix that.

I think you really need to go listen to Lee again because you definitely didn't hear Lee say what I heard then.

Lee said there was no sense of danger being out in the world for him and that wasn't the intent.

Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.

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