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Golgotha ... meh

Just Dak
It is a citizen's power and right to use their worth to the group to bargain for the change they want to see. If that is peace then they have the power to make their voices known to their leadership. If enough member level voices join them then the leaders are forced to weigh member worth versus leader animosity.

If the members of an organization want peace, then either the leader will listen and work on peace or suffer possibly losing those members.
Give me a reasonable despot any day. Someone that constantly reminds everyone that they are virtuous and honorable can not be trusted to be either. If you are good we will know by your deeds, if you are reasonable we will know by our deals.
Edam
Charlie George
If the members of an organization want peace, then either the leader will listen and work on peace or suffer possibly losing those members.

Being a pacifist and just being tired of pointless PvP are two different things.

Also at Keepers the main effect of the ongoing non-stop PvP has been to turn a lot of the people who thought it may be fun to try out PvP a bit PvP adverse. Once people get the idea that no matter what you do, even metaphorically burning the enemy to the ground, they will just pop up again next week and log in at some random time and wander into town and kill you again, they eventually give up on PvP and look for ways to avoid/ignore/work around it. Which is kind of what the OP is saying some 30 pages ago.
Just Dak
If both sides are ignoring the social pressure element, then even with mechanical additions it will in all effect be "meaningless".

Golgotha wants some pvp in the game, but will listen to their leadership. I don't know EBA's stance, but I do know it is only us (as two power blocks) sustaining conflict on a regular basis.

Looking for a mechanical addition to the war is useless if the social consequence is already inconsequential.
Give me a reasonable despot any day. Someone that constantly reminds everyone that they are virtuous and honorable can not be trusted to be either. If you are good we will know by your deeds, if you are reasonable we will know by our deals.
Quijenoth Starkiller
@Drogon: Flying a banner that currently labels you as a member of a settlement at war is like waving a red rag at a bull.

You always have choices in this game and while some choices may not seem the best, if its detrimental to your preferred play-style, then perhaps its time to drop the red rag.

Charlie is right! No mechanic will fix this in the short run or possibly even in the long run given how long this conflict has been active. You choose to role the dice and you have the power to determine the odds.
But then this conflict has kind of lost its meaning to so many who fly the banners.

Perhaps if the voices could make themselves heard like charlie suggested, we may see "peace in our time"
Quijenoth Starkiller Viceroy of Callambea
Company Leader of Beyond the Grave - www.beyond-pfo.com
Crafting Planner
Midnight
While I welcome any additional meaning for PvP, the very fact that there are some people who want the forever war to end suggests that the war has had an (intended) effect on those people.

The problem is, those people think they can end the war simply by calling it meaningless on a forum, rather than by engaging in the real and meaningful change of play (and changes in posting and general chat propaganda) that would be required for peace.

If it were truly meaningless, they could simply ignore it.

Personally, I don't want to make changes in my play or postings, either, but so far, I'm the forever war's biggest fan, (heck, I named it) so that works out pretty well for me.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Brighthaven Leader
Personally, I thought a lot of PvP was meaningless, whether there was forum meaning to it or not. The only real good thing we get out of this is practice for OE, the way this game goes, it might be worthless if they redesign the combat system and continue to change things.

This conflict may have driven off more people from the game in general, than gained those who have a taste for PvP. Which is a bad thing when we actually need more people across the board.
Brighthaven is a Neutral Good settlement focused on defending its citizens and its allies from negative fringe based PvP (Player Killing and Griefing) while striving to become a large and shining beacon for Good. Whether you wish to benefit from this protection or you love PvP and wish to assist in providing this protection, Brighthaven aims to be the home and support center for you!
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Cheatle for TEO
Personally, I thought a lot of PvP was meaningless, whether there was forum meaning to it or not. The only real good thing we get out of this is practice for OE, the way this game goes, it might be worthless if they redesign the combat system and continue to change things.

This conflict may have driven off more people from the game in general, than gained those who have a taste for PvP. Which is a bad thing when we actually need more people across the board.

Cheatle,

Before those individuals left the game, were their concerns listened to by the leadership? Were all avenues for peace pursued? Was there one company or settlement more responsible for the continued conflict than others? Were those players threatening to leave encouraged to instead leave their current settlement or even the EBA alliance, rather than leave the game?

I ask these questions as a company / settlement leader who altered my own play style desires, to meet the requests of Aragon's citizens. So I am not asking these questions from the perspective of someone not willing to make compromises that break from what I was hoping to do in the game.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Quijenoth
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Cheatle for TEO
Personally, I thought a lot of PvP was meaningless, whether there was forum meaning to it or not. The only real good thing we get out of this is practice for OE, the way this game goes, it might be worthless if they redesign the combat system and continue to change things.

This conflict may have driven off more people from the game in general, than gained those who have a taste for PvP. Which is a bad thing when we actually need more people across the board.

Cheatle,

Before those individuals left the game, were their concerns listened to by the leadership? Were all avenues for peace pursued? Was there one company or settlement more responsible for the continued conflict than others? Were those players threatening to leave encouraged to instead leave their current settlement or even the EBA alliance, rather than leave the game?

I ask these questions as a company / settlement leader who altered my own play style desires, to meet the requests of Aragon's citizens. So I am not asking these questions from the perspective of someone not willing to make compromises that break from what I was hoping to do in the game.
Perhaps if a more robust communication system was in place (i.e. settlement chat/friends lists) such discussions might have taken place. However the quiet ones rarely engage in conversations and even rarely use forums or voice comms. These are the casualties of war that are not represented on both sides and are more often than not unaware they had even chosen a side in the first place!
Quijenoth
I'd like to add that this is why alliances need a safe haven settlement!

A place to negotiate and, for those taking sides on an apathetic level, to go about their business. Callambea is Golgothas Apathetic settlement. we have known from day one that with an evil alliance such a place is necessary for the future of this game. Without it, the server will eventually become a North vs South battleground.
Doc
Consequences and poking are not that fulfilling if ultimately there are no mechanics in the game that allow us to win by forcing our opponent to sue for peace or degrade their abilities to attack us if we just want to be left alone to PVE, craft and gather.

That is sort of the problem, but not the whole problem.

The whole problem includes the fact that you have opponents who absolutely do not ever want to be left alone so they can PVE, craft, and gather in peace. They prefer to craft and gather when at war. It's more exciting to them.

From what I have noticed, whenever there is a prominent PvP-related activity going on involving Golgotha or EoX in general, there is a significant and noticeable uptick in activity and recruitment for Golgotha.

This conflict may have driven off more people from the game in general, than gained those who have a taste for PvP. Which is a bad thing when we actually need more people across the board.

This may come off as harsh, but here goes.

The game needs more people across the board who are interested in participating or engaging with the gameworld that is actually being made and the design currently being expressed by Goblin Works, and not the fantasy of a game that has existed in the minds of some people over the previous several years.

And if the game is going to be centered around conflict and PvP, and every indication I can read and hear from Devs suggests to me that it is, then we need more people who want (and not just grudgingly, but desire) to engage with that game loop in some capacity above zero.
 
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