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Golgotha ... meh

Baron Malthius
Doc
This may come off as harsh, but here goes.

The game needs more people across the board who are interested in participating or engaging with the gameworld that is actually being made and the design currently being expressed by Goblin Works, and not the fantasy of a game that has existed in the minds of some people over the previous several years.

And if the game is going to be centered around conflict and PvP, and every indication I can read and hear from Devs suggests to me that it is, then we need more people who want (and not just grudgingly, but desire) to engage with that game loop in some capacity above zero.

I do agree to some extent. If we go into this game thinking we can always be 100% safe 24/7 then we will definitely be disappointed because it is an open PvP sandbox. There will always be an implicit disclaimer that you can be killed by any player, anywhere, at any time.

Having said that, it always seemed to me that GW intends this game not to be about completely unrestrained random PvP either, given their insistence on funneling PvP into as many consensual PvP channels as possible and giving some form of consequence to PvP outside of those channels. There is also the interdependence between all three aspects of the game that require the ability of those who aren't as gung ho about PvP as the rest of us to still be able to function and do their thing not necessarily in total peace, but in a refuge that the attackers would have to put more effort into breaching. At the same time it also means that those same people will require awareness in some fashion that their company/settlement/alliance is currently in a war as well so they can take some appropriate measures but with the understanding that they are now at a much higher risk of getting killed.

I think a fair portion of this will be mitigated as additional communication are added to the game. Things like settlement chat and perhaps company/settlement announcements could go a long way of informing a player upon login of any urgent information. The burden is still on that player's leadership to initiate it but now there is a quick and easy way to facilitate that in game. This then puts the ball in the player's court regarding what to do next.
Quijenoth
GW does want controlled PVP but they do not necessarily want to artificially apply those constraints.

Yes you have Thornkeep and the patrolled roads but outside of that your fair game. As a sandbox game, open world PVP could simply be left to its own devices and would be absolute chaos. However once we have alignment, factions, and more, the players (not GW) will have the tools to define the boundries of PVP.

Baron Malthius is right about communication, new players entering the game need guidance from the start - not on how to play the game but on who is playing. I'm hoping notice boards will help here and that they will be highlighted in the new player tutorial.
Drogon
Quijenoth Starkiller
@Drogon: Flying a banner that currently labels you as a member of a settlement at war is like waving a red rag at a bull.

You always have choices in this game and while some choices may not seem the best, if its detrimental to your preferred play-style, then perhaps its time to drop the red rag.

Charlie is right! No mechanic will fix this in the short run or possibly even in the long run given how long this conflict has been active. You choose to role the dice and you have the power to determine the odds.
But then this conflict has kind of lost its meaning to so many who fly the banners.

Perhaps if the voices could make themselves heard like charlie suggested, we may see "peace in our time"

I personally like having PVP and the "Golgathans" in the game….it wouldn't be the same without you guys and our conflict, I really mean that. The element of danger is part of what keeps this game interesting for me. That being said, it doesn't have to be 23/7/365 like it is now. If holding warfare is the direction that the devs want to implement PVP then they should give both sides a clear path to victory that enables us to degrade our enemies capabilities to continue to wage war endlessly.
HpoD - "I have, however, sat and watched as others took things more personally (on both sides) and became zealots, charging forward on a shining white horse into a pile of shit. Forum Warriors at their peak, striding the battlefield knee deep in the bloody, broken arguments of their adversaries before the burning village of their credibility….Chill guys. "
Brighthaven Leader
Our issue comes from a couple different avenues.

We have had people attacked once and leave (before the current hostilities and after), we have had people explain that they will be back later when there are more restrictions to PvP, because they felt like what GW planned wasn't fully in place. We have had people leave because they felt that no matter where they go, eventually PvP will be brought to their door step. We have had people leave, because this game resembles nothing like Golarion, and they believed there would be more cooperating towards goals and less PvP, like the table top.

We have never, to my knowledge, have had anyone leave and join anyone else on the server. We have had people join us from other settlements on the server, because of their settlements politics, apathy in pvp, or the way they were treated.

Communication, I do believe has some issues, a lot of people (more than any MMO I have ever played) don't want to get on voice comms, and since we have ZERO social tools, in an extremely social game, we can't really get in contact with them often. I know our, Brighthaven's, activity is much higher than EoX has seen, or the people in our mumble has seen, because I see our influence tickers going up all the time for various companies when I know that no one is online from our core 40-50.

Every new recruit in the past 2 weeks (around 10 of them) know about the war we are fighting, some have fought with us already, and in a concentrated way. Most people that here right now, I think would like peace, but then Gol attacks and what they want is to fight. The problem is, not everyone here wants to PvP for several hours every single day, and to be frank that is a lot, more so than a lot of other sandboxes. Most of the time there is some kind of condition that allows for down time and recuperation, sometimes that is a win mechanic or just not the ability to sustain combat. I think Duffy is correct in saying there needs to be some down time between conflicts.

Last, a lot of people have issue with our settlements. There are no defenses in settlements. We have no walls, no anti-personnel weapons, and essentially no guards. I am not saying that towns should be safe havens, but hardcore (supposedly more hardcore games than this) games in the sandbox genre have some kind of defensebility to towns (or the equivalent) that can at least be manned, or automated, even against targets they are at war with. I have heard plenty of my membership ask questions of why our town has no defenses, walls, or why the guards suck so bad.

So to sum it up: The game isn't finished, and all the crucial parts that are important to the social and pvp aspects of the game just aren't there.
Brighthaven is a Neutral Good settlement focused on defending its citizens and its allies from negative fringe based PvP (Player Killing and Griefing) while striving to become a large and shining beacon for Good. Whether you wish to benefit from this protection or you love PvP and wish to assist in providing this protection, Brighthaven aims to be the home and support center for you!
Doc
What we need is a third-party group that can or wants to engage in a PvP war with Golgotha or EBA.

With at least a 3 way potential for war, then one of those 3 has the potential to bow out of conflict for a bit and take a break.

The problem is, I don't think we currently have the population capacity for that. Perhaps if the North and West consolidate into one group - but I wouldn't expect them to do that nor would I try to encourage them to do so.
Gog
Drogon
its our leaders that need to work the diplomacy angles but I am not sure some actually want to do so

There are some interesting conclusions that can be reached if you explore that line of thinking more fully. Some of those conclusions are not compatible with the position that "we just want to be left alone to PVE, craft and gather."
^This is Dak (Charlie George). RIP <Guurzak>
Rynnik
Cheatle for TEO
Our issue comes from a couple different avenues.

We have had people attacked once and leave (before the current hostilities and after), we have had people explain that they will be back later when there are more restrictions to PvP, because they felt like what GW planned wasn't fully in place. We have had people leave because they felt that no matter where they go, eventually PvP will be brought to their door step. We have had people leave, because this game resembles nothing like Golarion, and they believed there would be more cooperating towards goals and less PvP, like the table top.

We have never, to my knowledge, have had anyone leave and join anyone else on the server. We have had people join us from other settlements on the server, because of their settlements politics, apathy in pvp, or the way they were treated.

Communication, I do believe has some issues, a lot of people (more than any MMO I have ever played) don't want to get on voice comms, and since we have ZERO social tools, in an extremely social game, we can't really get in contact with them often. I know our, Brighthaven's, activity is much higher than EoX has seen, or the people in our mumble has seen, because I see our influence tickers going up all the time for various companies when I know that no one is online from our core 40-50.

Every new recruit in the past 2 weeks (around 10 of them) know about the war we are fighting, some have fought with us already, and in a concentrated way. Most people that here right now, I think would like peace, but then Gol attacks and what they want is to fight. The problem is, not everyone here wants to PvP for several hours every single day, and to be frank that is a lot, more so than a lot of other sandboxes. Most of the time there is some kind of condition that allows for down time and recuperation, sometimes that is a win mechanic or just not the ability to sustain combat. I think Duffy is correct in saying there needs to be some down time between conflicts.

Last, a lot of people have issue with our settlements. There are no defenses in settlements. We have no walls, no anti-personnel weapons, and essentially no guards. I am not saying that towns should be safe havens, but hardcore (supposedly more hardcore games than this) games in the sandbox genre have some kind of defensebility to towns (or the equivalent) that can at least be manned, or automated, even against targets they are at war with. I have heard plenty of my membership ask questions of why our town has no defenses, walls, or why the guards suck so bad.

So to sum it up: The game isn't finished, and all the crucial parts that are important to the social and pvp aspects of the game just aren't there.
Hopefully you take personal responsibility for a lot of that as one of the applicable leadership figures.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Doc
What we need is a third-party group that can or wants to engage in a PvP war with Golgotha or EBA.

With at least a 3 way potential for war, then one of those 3 has the potential to bow out of conflict for a bit and take a break.

The problem is, I don't think we currently have the population capacity for that. Perhaps if the North and West consolidate into one group - but I wouldn't expect them to do that nor would I try to encourage them to do so.

That is an interesting, yet odd, solution. What would a third party have to gain? If the third party is a mercenary, they will at first make an enemy of one power bock. Then, if they choose to show they are not a satellite and take a contract with the other party, they will soon make enemies of both.

The two parties will continue to fight until one side concedes and sues for peace. If as Cheatle says, they are losing members from the game, then the leadership needs to listen to its membership or the membership needs to demand new leadership. Players can vote for their feet without leaving the game.

As for the players that won't accept that no matter where they go, they may still have to face PvP, I have a straight answer: This game is not for everyone, good luck in finding what you're looking for. There is only so far a game with PvP and territorial control as its primary focus can cater to a play style outside of that goal.

What we have not seen yet is a positive write up of the ongoing Forever War on any of the MMO based forums. This could be a major selling point to a player base that is looking for a PvP focused sandbox MMO in the fantasy genre. Granted, Albion and Crowfall have already beat PFO to the punch in that market, that doesn't mean they should ignore the potential player base.

Representatives of EOX and EAB should jointly draft a thread explaining the geo-political and historical nature of the war. Both explain how the war has been good for the game, because honestly, without it the game would have died weeks ago (in my opinion, of course).
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Nihimon
I take a lot of responsibility for the enmity between Golgotha and Phaeros, and will work to keep that out of the forums and more amiable in game.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Doc
That is an interesting, yet odd, solution. What would a third party have to gain?

- Fun?

What really matters is what everyone gains:
- A game that doesn't irrevocably become Red vs Blue forever.

Either way, this game needs more power blocs to content with. And perhaps some kind of soft cap on settlements in an alliance to keep Red vs Blue to always become an inevitability.
 
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