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Golgotha ... meh

Midnight
Theeternalbalance
Midnight
I would LOVE to embrace my guilt. Unfortunately, neither I nor anyone in EoX I have spoken to knows who the O.P. character is.

But I would consider it an honor if someone I killed in my coal field in January or February still had flowing tears in July.

Don't deflect to the past. Embrace your group's guilt.

LOL. I can't find any indication that my group has encountered him, much less done anything to feel guilty about. And what should we feel guilty of? Open world PvP in an open world PvP game?

bwahahahahahaha

OK here's me decrying the actions of my mates, watch carefully:

Shame on you, Golgothans for playing this open world PvP game the way the devs intended. Can't you go back to joining the rest of the community in thwarting the devs' intentions by once again joining a map wide Non-Aggression Pact like the core 6 NAP?

See what I did there? smile

He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
Rynnik
Nihimon
and a significant number of players who didn't realize they were joining up to play a game that was "overwhelmed by PvP" have predictably left.
Which is such a shame when all they needed to do was join a player group that would have catered to their play style.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Gog
There's an unfortunate and widespread tendency to characterize "PVP I don't personally want" as meaningless, random, or lulzy.

You may not agree with my reasons; that does not mean they don't exist.
^This is Dak (Charlie George). RIP <Guurzak>
Doc
A significant number of them don't have any MMO experience. They were reassured by promises that "meaningless PvP" would be curtailed, that a "funnel of suck" would cause random player killers to be gimped in their power level, and that folks who were into "PvP for the lulz" wouldn't be allowed to set the tone of the game

I see basically almost no random PvP in this game now. I'm quite sure most would agree attacks on EBA types aren't construed as random. You think the existing PvP is meaningless, but then meaning is in the eye of the beholder. Calling it PvP for the "Lulz" is just a way to ad hominem your opponents. In reality they're doing PvP for the thrill of competition.

Some of those players react predictably to finding out that there are other players who take joy in killing them. When they wear their heart on their sleeve and lay bare their vulnerability, they get met with this kind of mockery and ridicule.

You should check out other MMO's like Darkfall, or the upcoming Crowfall. Those communities are so brutal it causes even me to blush. There needs to be a minimum level of emotional fortitude to play online games. PFO sets the bar pretty low already in my opinion, if you admit how many concessions and conciliatory acts have been made by players in PFO use to a more competitively robust opponent.

PFO isn't "overwhelmed by PvP", but certain corners of it have been for a long time, and a significant number of players who didn't realize they were joining up to play a game that was "overwhelmed by PvP" have predictably left.

I've always maintained it was a huge blunder to market this game to table-toppers, but that's just my opinion and it may be meritless.

Either way, a significant portion of the game's population wants to participate in PvP. They've been told not to attack newbie towns, and would be admonished for attacking weak/small settlements. That really only leaves the SE of the map, which in reality is the only opponent worth warring with anyway if you want to be aggressive.

If you're suggesting they shouldn't war those people, there is nobody left. What is your suggestion then? "You like PvP but there is none to be had or allowed here? So sod off?"

What is the answer here?
Doc
LOL. I can't find any indication that my group has encountered him, much less done anything to feel guilty about. And what should we feel guilty of? Open world PvP in an open world PvP game?

bwahahahahahaha

Midnight, until we collectively stop ridiculing people who don't share similar preferences for playstyle, people overly fond of PvP are going to be continuously lumped into this category:

"folks who were into "PvP for the lulz" wouldn't be allowed to set the tone of the game"
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Nihimon
A lot of folks came to PFO because of the relationship to PFRPG. A significant number of them don't have any MMO experience. They were reassured by promises that "meaningless PvP" would be curtailed, that a "funnel of suck" would cause random player killers to be gimped in their power level, and that folks who were into "PvP for the lulz" wouldn't be allowed to set the tone of the game. Those promises so far have been hollow.

Some of those players react predictably to finding out that there are other players who take joy in killing them. When they wear their heart on their sleeve and lay bare their vulnerability, they get met with this kind of mockery and ridicule.

I worry a lot that the low quantity of PvP across the map - entirely the result of the devs' refusal to make anything scarce enough to force conflict - means that the devs have completely ignored the quality of the PvP that has been occurring. PFO isn't "overwhelmed by PvP", but certain corners of it have been for a long time, and a significant number of players who didn't realize they were joining up to play a game that was "overwhelmed by PvP" have predictably left.

The two sides "in the corners" created that circumstance. The Devs have promised a sandbox, and you have created your own area of that sandbox. If new players are entering PFO and are specifically looking for PvP, Golgotha and Phaeros are the settlements to join. It is equally legitimate to advertise for new players, adverse to PvP, to stay clear of joining those settlements.

If you are suffering from war fatigue, I'd suggest you find a political solution to bring it to an end.

I'd also note that pitching this game too vigorously to the PFRPG was a mistake. The goal should have been to appeal to equal portions of both PFRPG and MMO veterans. The fact is, a majority of the PFRPG kickstarters took their PDFs and ran without ever giving the game a try or intending to. Meanwhile no such benefits of equal incentive was advertised or offered to MMO players.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Just Dak
Nihimon
I worry a lot that the low quantity of PvP across the map - entirely the result of the devs' refusal to make anything scarce enough to force conflict

I completely agree that resources should be married to the need for conflict (or hard diplomatic choices for that matter) more than they are currently.

+1 To that, Sir
Give me a reasonable despot any day. Someone that constantly reminds everyone that they are virtuous and honorable can not be trusted to be either. If you are good we will know by your deeds, if you are reasonable we will know by our deals.
Tyncale
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
I'd also note that pitching this game too vigorously to the PFRPG was a mistake. The goal should have been to appeal to equal portions of both PFRPG and MMO veterans. The fact is, a majority of the PFRPG kickstarters took their PDFs and ran without ever giving the game a try or intending to. Meanwhile no such benefits of equal incentive was advertised or offered to MMO players.

I certainly do not agree with the bolded part. Destinies Twin was a MMO-ers dream: 2 subs for one!(I now its not exactly that but still) Also, in-game goodies like the daily deals and other perks are all stuff that lots of MMO veterans like.

What would you call an incentive for the MMO crowd?
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Saiph the Fallen
Midnight
Theeternalbalance
Midnight
I would LOVE to embrace my guilt. Unfortunately, neither I nor anyone in EoX I have spoken to knows who the O.P. character is.

But I would consider it an honor if someone I killed in my coal field in January or February still had flowing tears in July.

Don't deflect to the past. Embrace your group's guilt.

LOL. I can't find any indication that my group has encountered him, much less done anything to feel guilty about. And what should we feel guilty of? Open world PvP in an open world PvP game?

bwahahahahahaha

OK here's me decrying the actions of my mates, watch carefully:

Shame on you, Golgothans for playing this open world PvP game the way the devs intended. Can't you go back to joining the rest of the community in thwarting the devs' intentions by once again joining a map wide Non-Aggression Pact like the core 6 NAP?

See what I did there? smile

You are your own worst enemy.
Midnight
Doc
LOL. I can't find any indication that my group has encountered him, much less done anything to feel guilty about. And what should we feel guilty of? Open world PvP in an open world PvP game?

bwahahahahahaha

Midnight, until we collectively stop ridiculing people who don't share similar preferences for playstyle, people overly fond of PvP are going to be continuously lumped into this category:

"folks who were into "PvP for the lulz" wouldn't be allowed to set the tone of the game"

I'm ridiculing the partisan troll propagandist (who is not the O.P.) who is telling us to embrace our guilt, and has offered no clue as to his/her preference in playstyle.

I'm not ridiculing the O.P. unless he really falls into the (hopefully fictional) category I joked about of people who are still crying over a coal field death at my hands 5 or 6 months ago. If such a person does actually exist, they at least learned where not to mine coal, so their trauma wasn't meaningless.
He who wrestles with us strengthens our nerves and sharpens our skill. Our antagonist is our helper.
-Edmund Burke
 
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