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Open letter – 24/7 availability, game balance and PvP

Caldeathe Baequiannia
Nihimon
Thod-Theodum
Attacking someone just because he is a member of X is perfectly legitimate and the only tool given in game.

Yes, but…

Killing someone outside of a Feud was supposed to incur the penalty of Reputation Loss. Currently, that penalty is so trivial that it is irrelevant.
This is true. The penalty doesn't appear (in general) to be much of a deterrent to acting outside the desired mechanics. While my own group has been remarkably successful in avoiding trouble, there are obvious signs of fatigue in other places.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Saiph the Fallen
I don't believe killing an individual that you aren't feuded with but belongs to an enemy alliance is murder. So let's get that straight. What I do believe is the punishment for killing unflagged players is certainly not as detrimental as Goblinworks wants it to be - which is the problem here.

Why do we keep going over this? You know it's true, and I know it's true that killing certified allies of an enemy is fine in war. What is the issue?
Rynnik
Saiph the Fallen
What I do believe is the punishment for killing unflagged players is certainly not as detrimental as Goblinworks wants it to be - which is the problem here.
On what basis can you make that contention?

There is no significant occurrence of unflagged players being killed on this server. Despite EBA propaganda we aren't doing it, and no other group is doing enough of it to be noticed (and with how loud any occurrence tends to be we would notice).

It not happening is a pretty poor basis of evidence to say that meachanics to stop it aren't working.

What I DO know is that it is an impediment and massive p.i.t.a to deal with even in the conflict which ISN'T murder. Mechanically it makes something that should be completely okay in the game into a tedious pain.

Rep is obviously fine.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Saiph the Fallen
Rynnik
Saiph the Fallen
What I do believe is the punishment for killing unflagged players is certainly not as detrimental as Goblinworks wants it to be - which is the problem here.
On what basis can you make that contention?

There is no significant occurrence of unflagged players being killed on this server. Despite EBA propaganda we aren't doing it, and no other group is doing enough of it to be noticed (and with how loud any occurrence tends to be we would notice).

It not happening is a pretty poor basis for evidence saying that it isn't working.

What I DO know is that it is an impediment and massive p.i.t.a to deal with even in the conflict which ISN'T murder. Mechanically it makes something that should be completely okay in the game into a tedious pain.

Rep is obviously fine.

I can only debate someone that will actually consider other people's opinions. And if you think the current reputation system will always work as it does now, you're mistaken. Go read a blog or three.
Rynnik
Saiph the Fallen
Rynnik
Saiph the Fallen
What I do believe is the punishment for killing unflagged players is certainly not as detrimental as Goblinworks wants it to be - which is the problem here.
On what basis can you make that contention?

There is no significant occurrence of unflagged players being killed on this server. Despite EBA propaganda we aren't doing it, and no other group is doing enough of it to be noticed (and with how loud any occurrence tends to be we would notice).

It not happening is a pretty poor basis for evidence saying that it isn't working.

What I DO know is that it is an impediment and massive p.i.t.a to deal with even in the conflict which ISN'T murder. Mechanically it makes something that should be completely okay in the game into a tedious pain.

Rep is obviously fine.

I can only debate someone that will actually consider other people's opinions. And if you think the current reputation system will always work as it does now, you're mistaken. Go read a blog or three.
Considered.

You have no evidence or logic as to why there is no evidence.

Next…
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Saiph the Fallen
Read a blog, plenty of evidence.
Dreaden
Rep hits are detrimental to my play time. For example I went deep into the negatives after killing high rep unflagged player during the event. As a result I couldn't enter a town to bank and basically had to log out for 2 days until I had enough rep to enter a town and bank. This forced me to miss the convoy ops back to golgotha and when I could finally get all my loot, I had to make a very high risk solo run across half the map with a lot of high level spells and recipes. So, as a consequence for PvP I lost 2 days of game time and put myself in a very nerve raking situation. Doesn't sound very trivial to me..
Rynnik
Saiph the Fallen
Read a blog, plenty of evidence.
Okay caldeathe.

A biochemistry complains beside the war.

If you want to take the time to explain to me what that is supposed to mean go ahead.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Doc
And if you think the current reputation system will always work as it does now, you're mistaken. Go read a blog or three.

Goblin Works wrote the blogs, and wrote the code for the reputation system. Why don't you ask their opinion?
vyal
Rynnik
… Don't forget the factor that destroying buildings is incredibly boring. Pushing buttons while watching a targeted static health bar sink isn't exactly riveting gameplay.

I do agree that PvP should be a negative net sum activity in most cases (banditry being the main exception).
Agreed, that would be/ is boring.
However, it doesn't have to be.

One adhoc random theorycrafted example, in 60 seconds:
The target structure is made of wood. A portion of it is above ground, a portion of it is underground.
When the structure is built, defenses are added to the above ground portion, and the below ground portion. These can be of a wide variety of mechanisms, from magical shields, to waves of defending NPC's, alarms, traps, illusions, teleports, contagion/biohazard, puzzles, locks, curses, and more.
Attacking this structure, or attempting to enter it, or entering it, triggers any/some/many of the defenses.
The defenses run on a script, enforcing a timed component that must be countered either with attacks, knowledge, teamwork, skills, cures, consumables, time, and so on.

A simple practical implementation in detail.
Throughout the game world, as part of gathering, from time to time you may come across insect colonies. These can be nurtured in the appropriate settlement structure, or in rented space in an NPC settlement. Spells, consumables, time, effort and knowledge contribute to how you might raise said insects. You could, for example, raise them to be immune to a certain damage type, prefer a certain type of wood, and be voracious, large, miniature, giant, or reproduce quickly, or have heavy chitin for more armor, or spit acid.
You then carefully transport them to the target structure, and release them.

Now or in the future, the owners of the structure are informed of the infestation and must counter it. They can do this with wards on the structure to buy them time, reinforcement by resource consumption (more wood, now!), poisoning the insects by offering a more attractive food, or capturing the insects, having superior knowledge about their habits & preferences. They may already have defenses in place such as NPC defenders, or have treated the wood against insects, or built the structure out of cedar, instead of yew, and these insects love yew more, so they chew slowly/slower.
Players can go to the structure immediately and simply attack the insects to delay or prevent the infestation.
Or the defenders can have skill, planning, knowledge and strategic thinking rewarded if they're so inclined, by knowing that the attack will ultimately fail, and their choices have consequences, in this case, beneficial.
Perhaps the defenders dispatch their current Scholar to go and coerce or entrap the attacking insects, entirely diverting the attack and claiming the attacking resources for their own, converting it into an attacking or defending NPC wave they use to retaliate against their attacker?
Perhaps the attackers go and heal the attacking insects, or buff/bolster them, or provide resistance to the damage from the defending NPC waves. Or simply attack the defending NPC's and (potentially) PC's.
The size of the attackers may delay a response, or notification, as an optional response.
If players help the attack script, it may reduce the script time to as much as half, optionally.
If NPC defenses overwhelm the attack, maybe they're not consumed, but in fact increase in strength, as a morale bonus, optionally.
The creation and deployment of attack and defense 'widgets' can involve all crafting professions and consume all raw and refined materials.
As soon as you've attacked the above ground structure, you realize there are below ground defenders as well, uh oh, you didn't bring any below ground attackers, run away! Or dedicate a group of your players to dealing with the below ground defenders, while you call for the giant mole-rats! smile
On large structures, maybe there's an aerial component for attack and defense, too. Rabid armored crows attack, fire spitting griffins defend. Ouch, bad day for the crows.

Ok, that's enough of that, for now.

I recognize that many games, ( yes, many that I have played ) have resorted to the approach of "hit this keep door with your zerg until your zerg zergs the smaller zerg trying to defend" but there's no technical reason this has to be the way it's done. It's the fastest, simplest, crudest, and most easily exploited implementation. Hence why most/some/many games that have tried it either have failed outright or are currently ghost towns, population-wise.

tl;dr? There are other better options rather than just "watching a targeted static health bar sink".
 
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