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thoughts after a month

Nihimon
I'm also curious how PFO stacks up against other Open World PvP Sandboxes with respect to the ratio of Killers to Socializers/Achievers/Explorers.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Hobson Fiffledown
^ I don't think any of those categories are exclusive enough to categorize. Maybe a ratio of players who fancy themselves as mainly a killer, socializer[sic], achiever, or an explorer.
This space for rent.
Ryan Dancey
Enough were completed to make me confident that we have a statistically significant sample. That's borne out by how consistent the answers were when looking at responses over time. And we actually surveyed three different population with some overlap and the overlap was consistent. So I think we've got good data.
Ryan Dancey
I'll tell you that I have little interest in those categorizations. They are what I call "intuitive classifications" rather than "quantitative segments". In other words they exist because someone looked at a population of players and then tried to intuitively classify them in ways that make sense. This is how Aristotle came up with his ideas for how the world works. People thought he was mostly right for several thousand years until it was shown he was almost totally wrong.

Quantitative segmentation is what you get when you use a large series of questions to poke at people's ideas of what they do and why they do it and then you try to find patterns in the data. Often those patterns match intuitive classifications, but almost always you find segments that weren't suspected and sometimes you realize that the whole data set tells you something different than what people intuitively thought were there.

We did research like this at Wizards in 99/Y2K and what we found were very clear segments and none of them were clean matches for the intuitive classifications people had been making about tabletop gamers. So I think that if we had the time and money to do the same kind of study for MMO players we'd find the same kind of results - segments that don't map cleanly to the conventional wisdom. Which kind of explains why all attempts to use the intuitive classifications to drive game designs have mostly failed.
Gluggo
Well, I wish I hadn't posted this post. Like I said, I am primarily a table top gamer. I didn't know there were sites devoted to critiquing MMO's, but in another thread someone had posted a video, and I went over to that site and found a robust discussion about PFO, both good but mostly bad, sadly.

After my post, I now feel bad as if I was piling on (this after reading all the stuff on the review site). I didn't mean for it to sound like that.

I did happen to find a game that I am enjoying right from the start on Steam, it seems to be more inline with what my group of friends were looking for, hopefully after GenCon we can get them to try it out. The sandbox thing will just have to grow on me I suppose, it really wasn't what we were looking for (not that that is bad or anything, sometimes you go looking for one thing and you find another thing instead).

Will still keep my sub going here, and checking in from time to time, hoping things progress, and hoping to log on and have something to do when I do log in. I have high hopes!

Gluggo and Toots smile
Maxen
Gluggo, don't feel bad about posting. Healthy discussion is good. Sometimes we see things from another perspective and change our position. Sometimes we make valid points and change others positions. As long comments are made constructively and honestly, there is never a 'bad' post. None of us can possibly know everything, but through our collective inputs, we learn a lot. I've enjoyed reading through this and especially hearing Ryan's perspective.
Bringslite
@ Gluggo

I am glad that you posted. There was a comment that your angle was skewed because it was from a TTer's expectations. There really isn't any thing wrong with that. Lots of your issues cover broad areas that are shared by lots of different backgrounds.

Once again, thank you for posting your group's take and thank you for doing it well.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Fanndis Goldbraid
Regarding Table Top gaming versus an MMO…

I had the luxury of time when I was young…in high school and college, and a few years afterwards to table top game to my hearts content. It was a blast. My various groups did things like come up with a super detailed crit table based on weapon types, body target areas, and severity of the damage to mimic debilitating crits, or even instant death in some cases. (All done in less than a second nowadays). We could take a three day weekend and do nothing nut game, pizza boxes piled in the corner of the host's apartment or dorm room, cases of empty beer cans overflowing the trash, and character sheets and dice all over the place. For really big adventures we had boxes of miniatures and dungeon tiles covering every flat surface, and sometimes had box lids covering the prebuild dungeon areas to unveil a fully build adventure one area at a time. Great memories all around, and I cherish those days of lots of free time and little personal responsibility.

I cannot ever recreate those memories, or the gaming experiences no matter what MMO I play. It is a totally different creature. But I had a lot of fun (of a different sort) in MMOs, and here in PFO. I really like the players Forgeholm has attracted, almost all of which have a long term view of the game, and for the most part we are more interested in building up than tearing down. It has been a difficult puzzle to figure out some of the systems (like the keyword system specifically), but I am having fun playing. I will continue to play until it is no longer fun. Since I am paying cash to have fun, I will have fun the way I want to have fun, most of which is having found a group of people I can spend hours chatting with and telling stories to about the glory days of my youth (I am over 50 now, so most of my glory days are in my past).

New players do need to have the correct expectations, that is an absolute truth. But if you are having fun and not worrying too much about the game mechanics, keep playing and having fun. The game mechanics knowledge will come to you slowly. PFO is not meant to be WoW or SWTOR or any other Theme Park. If anything it is more like UO or EVE…you make fun where you can find it. Granted, a lot of the tools to do things are not even in the game yet, but that is where the social aspect picks up the slack.
 
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