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A Proposal

Bringslite
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Bringslite
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Bringslite
the Machine is drifting further off course and further away from the destination that was described and understood (at least how I understood it).

This sounds like your making the assumption that they have not made a course direction in response to realities that they may have become aware of.

That might be so. If so, I would like to be brought up to speed concerning WHAT is different in the "end goal" now. I can accept change and adjust my expectations if it makes sense and doesn't drift far from the original concepts.

I am certainly not here to support a game that gets watered down until it is just like all the other games that can't keep my interest.

How's that been working out so far?

I suspect you have read the final review on MMORPG, and setting aside all other comments but one, we are left with a game that it described as "empty".

That is something that needs to be addressed, and saying "this is not for everyone at this stage" isn't going to mean anything when it comes to breaking that reality. I'm sure yiu noticed, I did not say impression, because the feeling of emptiness is not an impression.

I don't know if you have tried any other MMOs since you have started playing PFO. I've since returned to SWTOR, LOTRO, and played for the first time in Albion Online's summer alpha. None of those games felt empty, and in the case of Albion, I was experiencing culture shock when entering the starter area and literally passing a hundred or more players along the way or in town.

I just read it. Pretty much what I expected from it. Is the reviewer an outside independent or a large MMORPG.COM personality/staffer?

The reason that I ask, is that the opinions of that particular culture (that site) are fairly "in line" with that review. There are the few obviously long time posters (1000s of posts) that pop in now and then to chide for some of the misquoting, comment against things like "It's stupid to pay a sub for this", or comment themselves basically: "This isn't wrecking the MMO industry. This isn't evil. If they find value in subbing, why the hell do you care so much?" and even "Why is it so important to you that the game fail that you will state false info as fact?", etc… etc…

By and large though, those potential customers over there are so set against a few important particulars that it is probably a waste of time to attempt to offer why you think the game is worth the price right now. At least it is for the 3 or 4 that have been trying to do that.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Bringslite
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Bringslite
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Bringslite
the Machine is drifting further off course and further away from the destination that was described and understood (at least how I understood it).

This sounds like your making the assumption that they have not made a course direction in response to realities that they may have become aware of.

That might be so. If so, I would like to be brought up to speed concerning WHAT is different in the "end goal" now. I can accept change and adjust my expectations if it makes sense and doesn't drift far from the original concepts.

I am certainly not here to support a game that gets watered down until it is just like all the other games that can't keep my interest.

How's that been working out so far?

I suspect you have read the final review on MMORPG, and setting aside all other comments but one, we are left with a game that it described as "empty".

That is something that needs to be addressed, and saying "this is not for everyone at this stage" isn't going to mean anything when it comes to breaking that reality. I'm sure yiu noticed, I did not say impression, because the feeling of emptiness is not an impression.

I don't know if you have tried any other MMOs since you have started playing PFO. I've since returned to SWTOR, LOTRO, and played for the first time in Albion Online's summer alpha. None of those games felt empty, and in the case of Albion, I was experiencing culture shock when entering the starter area and literally passing a hundred or more players along the way or in town.

I just read it. Pretty much what I expected from it. Is the reviewer an outside independent or a large MMORPG.COM personality/staffer?

The reason that I ask, is that the opinions of that particular culture (that site) are fairly "in line" with that review. There are the few obviously long time posters (1000s of posts) that pop in now and then to chide for some of the misquoting, comment against things like "It's stupid to pay a sub for this", or comment themselves basically: "This isn't wrecking the MMO industry. This isn't evil. If they find value in subbing, why the hell do you care so much?" and even "Why is it so important to you that the game fail that you will state false info as fact?", etc… etc…

By and large though, those potential customers over there are so set against a few important particulars that it is probably a waste of time to attempt to offer why you think the game is worth the price right now. At least it is for the 3 or 4 that have been trying to do that.

The reviewer is Steven Messner, a Staff Writer at MMORPG. He is fairly new it that community, but I knew I had recognized his name. He has also done some writing on various sites, and the EvE Online forums.

The subscription cost was the key issue he cited, but he tied it to the game's value score. The game in his view,and many others, is not worth a full subscription cost.

The lowest scores obviously went to graphics, UI and basic game mechanics, all combined and described as outdated.

It is unfortunate that the push was made to have this review now. But before you jump to a conclusion, that push was not by some random posters, it was the result of a refusal to call the game's state what it is an Alpha or at best a Beta. No one has ever charged full sub price fir an alpha or beta, and if it isn't clear enough by now, that reason should be obvious. It comes off as a greedy and desperate money grab, and a major turn off for a majority.

The expression, "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it" springs to mind.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Bringslite
Oh aye. I wasn't one of those who argued that it would be unfair to review PfO now or back when there was the first call to do it.

I do think that there could be a difference between reviewing a game that claims to be actually "ready for general MMO player consumption" and a game that clearly states that "it isn't ready for general MMO player consumption but is ready for those few that might like to see and even possibly affect the development of a game from an unfinished stage."

That number of MMO players will not be a large % whether there is bad publicity or not, but bad publicity doesn't help. That is why it baffles me that a few are so after "hurting" the game that they go beyond it's shortcomings to write false BS and post it where they know it will cause a feeding frenzy. There are lots of neat interwebz people that do luv them frenzys! When your approach is negative based, it is really easy to manipulate them. They take anything written as TRUTH, so long as it is something to attack.

This game has plenty of reasons to be passed over by the average MMO player. Lies are not necessary.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Bringslite
This game has plenty of reasons to be passed over by the average MMO player. Lies are not necessary.

You would have to produce evidence of a lie, before that claim can have any merit. Every weakness that the game has in design, implementation and in practice can be pointed to (even if as a corner case).

The score of the review was not impacted by poster comments and it honestly reflects what we have all known for months. The game looks and plays too outdated, and there is no fixing that without modernizing the engine it's built on. The world is lifeless or what some have said "soulless".

Here is a pet peeve of mine, "Why are the rivers still dry?" It may seem like a superficial thing, but it is actually a prime example of what is wrong.

The setting is the River Kingdoms, and it has no rivers. News flash: Video games are a visual medium. This means that visuals are actually IMPORTANT. Don't give me that mantra that visuals don't matter as much as game play. That mantra really say visuals don't matter as much if the game play is good. PFO does not have either, right now, and outdated now will always be outdated. Two more years of development won't make the game look like another game (using a modern engine) two years from now.

The River Kingdoms have no rivers, is also a contributor to the soulless feel of the game. I was one of the earliest alpha testers in Pirates of the Burning Sea (2.5 years before launch). By the second week, it had seas. Even for a closed alpha, the developer understood the contradiction of not having the water and its visual effects in. Believe me, we were vocal about our ships floating in the air.

The lack of rivers in PFO should actually be a priority in my opinion. Not only should those rivers be in, but they should be impassable, and this would have great impact on game play (travel, combat - both PvE and PvP, and territorial control (meta or in game). Bridges would have importance and become potential focal points for conflict.

I hope the Devs take note of the review and perhaps step back and rethink the order in which they look to implement graphic enhancements versus adding additional complex systems.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
HowardWdW
I haven't read the review, but I've commented elsewhere on the "empty" or "soulless" issue. I've also commented on the lack of rivers issue. Even put it as priority #1 in my comments in last survey form. The game is visually lacking (doesn't feel enough like a fantasy MMO), it's basically full of grinding and lacking in excitement, and finally it has mechanics that are incomplete for even the basic roles.

There are hosts of posts on these forums about the game mechanic issues with basic roles. I and others have posted about increasing the excitement factor and the visual issues. I'm not sure how you make the game FTP when all the gear is player crafted (assuming cosmetic gear is the primary money maker in FTP), but at the end of the day the sub is not the issue. The game itself is lacking. Yes it's still under development, and maybe it will get to where it needs to; that's what we all hope for and why we are still here plugging away at it.

I think what the OP might have been trying to say, is for the developers to take a step back and reorganize their priorities. My list would be:

#1. You can't leave something half finished that is at the core of the game. So finish the settlement mechanics.(Yes they already have, but finish this)
#2. Put in the rivers. River Kingdoms with no rivers is absurd.
#3. Fix the basic roles. Rogue idk what it needs as I don't play one, but plenty of posts elsewhere. Clerics, channel +ve/-ve, get the Gods in and Domains working properly. Wizards, are a mess IMO, lots of posts on that too. Fighters, probably OP with the extra range on melee and especially with the FF nerf.
#4. Fix the lack of impact of terrain on ranged attacks and "facing" in melee. Those will make the game play so differently it's not even funny.
Then step back and let us play the game for a few weeks and see if things are more balanced amongst roles.
Bringslite
"You would have to produce evidence of a lie, before that claim can have any merit. Every weakness that the game has in design, implementation and in practice can be pointed to (even if as a corner case)."


Ok. How about what got me started posting over there?

In order to fully participate in the Holding / Outpost aspects of the game that was just added, you will most likely have to join one of the three main settlements or their alliance. Actually getting to own and run an outpost / holding requires that you run escalations and defeat the escalation bosses.

Only the larger populated settlements can run these, and at the same time ensure that no one kill steals the escalation boss. You can actually spend hours running an escalation and by a stroke of luck, another team can spot the boss before your group and kill it (getting all of the rewards, including the resources needed to build an outpost / holding).

So the meaning of this sandbox is, the content is only if you join one of the big boys."


This is pretty much a lie or at the very least misleading when you know better. It was posted by you, Bluddwolf. There are plenty more and not just your poison. I could find better, but I am not willing to spend any more time on this than this post right now. The futility of that battle (over there) has me turning mean when I post there. I don't want to be like that. I invite others to examine the MMORPG.Com site. There are quotes with words changed in them. Quotes with 1/2 sentences, isolating a few words and ignoring the rest. There are quotes taken out of context, that are completely twisted and used as ammunition. I don't have any problem with truthful shortcomings. I have problems staying neutral when people are going beyond the real issues with PfO to try and wreck it. You are not going to get GW to change dev direction this way. Now the campaign to drop the box fee was good. It addressed one real issue and worked. That was one thing that you probably commented on that was a good choice. There are more basic critiques by you that are not lies. Fine.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Rynnik
Bringslite
This is pretty much a lie or at the very least misleading when you know better. It was posted by you, Bluddwolf. There are plenty more and not just your poison. I could find better, but I am not willing to spend any more time on this than this post right now. The futility of that battle (over there) has me turning mean when I post there. I don't want to be like that. I invite others to examine the MMORPG.Com site. There are quotes with words changed in them. Quotes with 1/2 sentences, isolating a few words and ignoring the rest. There are quotes taken out of context, that are completely twisted and used as ammunition. I don't have any problem with truthful shortcomings. I have problems staying neutral when people are going beyond the real issues with PfO to try and wreck it. You are not going to get GW to change dev direction this way. Now the campaign to drop the box fee was good. It addressed one real issue and worked. That was one thing that you probably commented on that was a good choice. There are more basic critiques by you that are not lies. Fine.
Bold statements coming from you.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Bringslite
Rynnik
Bringslite
This is pretty much a lie or at the very least misleading when you know better. It was posted by you, Bluddwolf. There are plenty more and not just your poison. I could find better, but I am not willing to spend any more time on this than this post right now. The futility of that battle (over there) has me turning mean when I post there. I don't want to be like that. I invite others to examine the MMORPG.Com site. There are quotes with words changed in them. Quotes with 1/2 sentences, isolating a few words and ignoring the rest. There are quotes taken out of context, that are completely twisted and used as ammunition. I don't have any problem with truthful shortcomings. I have problems staying neutral when people are going beyond the real issues with PfO to try and wreck it. You are not going to get GW to change dev direction this way. Now the campaign to drop the box fee was good. It addressed one real issue and worked. That was one thing that you probably commented on that was a good choice. There are more basic critiques by you that are not lies. Fine.
Bold statements coming from you.

Elaborate please. If I have something to amend somewhere, I will take a look and do so.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Rynnik
Bringslite
Rynnik
Bringslite
This is pretty much a lie or at the very least misleading when you know better. It was posted by you, Bluddwolf. There are plenty more and not just your poison. I could find better, but I am not willing to spend any more time on this than this post right now. The futility of that battle (over there) has me turning mean when I post there. I don't want to be like that. I invite others to examine the MMORPG.Com site. There are quotes with words changed in them. Quotes with 1/2 sentences, isolating a few words and ignoring the rest. There are quotes taken out of context, that are completely twisted and used as ammunition. I don't have any problem with truthful shortcomings. I have problems staying neutral when people are going beyond the real issues with PfO to try and wreck it. You are not going to get GW to change dev direction this way. Now the campaign to drop the box fee was good. It addressed one real issue and worked. That was one thing that you probably commented on that was a good choice. There are more basic critiques by you that are not lies. Fine.
Bold statements coming from you.

Elaborate please. If I have something to amend somewhere, I will take a look and do so.
smile

Your use of bold font was both emphatic and prolific.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Bringslite
Rynnik
Bringslite
Rynnik
Bringslite
This is pretty much a lie or at the very least misleading when you know better. It was posted by you, Bluddwolf. There are plenty more and not just your poison. I could find better, but I am not willing to spend any more time on this than this post right now. The futility of that battle (over there) has me turning mean when I post there. I don't want to be like that. I invite others to examine the MMORPG.Com site. There are quotes with words changed in them. Quotes with 1/2 sentences, isolating a few words and ignoring the rest. There are quotes taken out of context, that are completely twisted and used as ammunition. I don't have any problem with truthful shortcomings. I have problems staying neutral when people are going beyond the real issues with PfO to try and wreck it. You are not going to get GW to change dev direction this way. Now the campaign to drop the box fee was good. It addressed one real issue and worked. That was one thing that you probably commented on that was a good choice. There are more basic critiques by you that are not lies. Fine.
Bold statements coming from you.

Elaborate please. If I have something to amend somewhere, I will take a look and do so.
smile

Your use of bold font was both emphatic and prolific.

Well aren't you a rascal! If I wasn't sure that there are plenty of posts that I really should not have made or that were terrible and wrong, I wouldn't have had that knee jerk "guilt" reaction.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
 
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