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Doc
Not that a really disagree, but to play devil's advocate: imagine if the territory that coalitions like CFC control were obtained originally through winning a popularity contest on a forum, rather than through winning battles, etc. Would some people in EVE have a problem with that years later? One could imagine that some people might.
Dreaden
Stilachio Thrax
Dreaden
The difference is the game is not worth paying for now, let alone January. Ask yourself this question, would you pay a sub if exp and items were going to be wiped? If yes, congratulations you care a lot about PFO and want to help fund/develop it. If not, you care about getting a leg up on future players more than the health of the game. Plain and simple.

In your opinion…which is no more valid or important than anyone else's here. You don't get to say what is worth it for other people, only yourself. Would I still subscribe if there was a wipe? Probably. But then we are also talking about the devs backsliding on a pretty important thing they promised. While the XP wipe in and of itself isn't make or break for me, breaking their word potentially is.

But you still haven't answered how wiping now (or at OE or whenever) to level the playing field is somehow a different situation than wiping at OE + 1 year, when OE day 1 people have a year advantage on new players. Do you want to wipe XP every year, so everyone is the same? Are there any games out there that do that? I can't think of one, yet I know of one very successful example that does the same XP system as PFO, and that "advantage" you think vets will have somehow has never been a problem.
In my opinion yes, but also that of GW. Otherwise they would be marketing the game already, I also believe Ryan has said multiple times the game isn't ready for the general gaming population. Wiping when all announced major features are implemented and polished is what I'm referring to. The difference between exp starting at OE vs EE is the game will done and not in some pseudo early enrollment/alpha phase. OE +1 I have no sympathy for because the game will be fun and complete at OE, unlike the current log in spend exp log out situation.
Smitty
The reason I am paying for this game now is because I believe in the game design, not for how it is now. When people who may like the game design finally like the game, and accept it is something they will pay for why should it be reset?
Those people know the game and they know the design and they know there is no wipes ( they express this in every post about the game they possibly can ). When/If the game gets to a point they may feel better about paying for it why wipe it for them?
Currently they hate the game, they will in many ways always hate the game and changing the business model halfway through the project to accommodate them is stupid. There is no upside to wiping at this point. You think the press sites would re-review it since it was wiped and give it all sorts of praise? Or you think they would go off on how GW lied to all their customers before cant be trusted etc…( I know which would garner more clicks .. and that is all those review sites truly care about..)
Baron Malthius
Are people STILL debating about the whether we should have a server wipe or not?

For those trying to push for a wipe, it's a done deal people. It isn't gonna happen and no amount of saying it should will make it so. The devs already it clear that they promised not to do this so unless the devs decide to say otherwise, just give it up.

Also, Smitty is right, the people who are hating on the game now (like MMORPG.com which seems to be talked about like they are the end all be all review site) are not going to change their minds if the server is wiped anyway and will only find more of a reason to hate it. The rest of the gaming review sites (the more mainstream ones that write with more professionalism than some of the reviews I've read on MMORPG.com IMO) will probably take a deeper look later, most likely when Open Enrollment is around.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Baron Malthius
Are people STILL debating about the whether we should have a server wipe or not?
There's no debate, just people saying what they think.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Thod-Theodum
People who ask for a wipe:

It would work for PvP

It won't work for settlements and the economy. A wiped character can't
1) build holdings
2) build settlement structures
3) build any T2 items
4) can't even craft T1 items until several days into the game
5) Auction houses would be empty again until worthwhile items are available
6) there are no feuds until you gained enough influence

A lot of functionality that is currently added to the system won't be possible. Holding warfare would take likely at least several month before the first holdings are even around. Duergar, elementals need to be removed from the game again as they are overpowered for starter characters.
Weapons and armour drops need to be reintroduced. We have to restart with pre made settlements as it takes 6 month to reach a level to build buildings.

A wipe is more then just levelng the XP for PvP.
Thod/Theodum are the OOC/IC leaders of the Emerald Lodge - a neutral settlement in the center of the mal that tries to the first to explore the Emerald Spire - should that part of the game ever become available. We have a strong in game and out of game relationship with the Pathfinder Society.
We welcome both hard core players as well as casual players with or without tabletop experience. We have a strong group in Europe and are slowly expanding into the US. We are predominately PvE as our neutral political stance means that we tend to use PvP only in self-defence. We are not anti-PVP - but expect limited PvP opportunity with us.
Baron Malthius
Thod-Theodum
People who ask for a wipe:

It would work for PvP

It won't work for settlements and the economy. A wiped character can't
1) build holdings
2) build settlement structures
3) build any T2 items
4) can't even craft T1 items until several days into the game
5) Auction houses would be empty again until worthwhile items are available
6) there are no feuds until you gained enough influence

A lot of functionality that is currently added to the system won't be possible. Holding warfare would take likely at least several month before the first holdings are even around. Duergar, elementals need to be removed from the game again as they are overpowered for starter characters.
Weapons and armour drops need to be reintroduced. We have to restart with pre made settlements as it takes 6 month to reach a level to build buildings.

A wipe is more then just levelng the XP for PvP.

+1
Dreaden
Thod, it's called starting over fresh. Rebalance engineering for buildings/holdings to start at lower level, esclations can be turn on and off as was proven during Nur Athemon. Crafting is non issues because no one could use higher than t1 for a month. Everyone that's plays now and everyone waiting for the game to be finished would start at the same time, you know like a normal launch. No advantages to veterans besides the knowledge of the game they've attained.

To everyone else, I wasn't around for the original wipe debates. Sorry if this is a broken record for you.
Caldeathe Baequiannia
Dreaden
Thod, it's called starting over fresh. Rebalance engineering for buildings/holdings to start at lower level, esclations can be turn on and off as was proven during Nur Athemon. Crafting is non issues because no one could use higher than t1 for a month. Everyone that's plays now and everyone waiting for the game to be finished would start at the same time, you know like a normal launch. No advantages to veterans besides the knowledge of the game they've attained.

To everyone else, I wasn't around for the original wipe debates. Sorry if this is a broken record for you.
If low level engineering characters can build buildings, and the buildings can be built with materials that low level characters can gather, then there will be no incentive for everyone not to take a level or two and the buildings will be worth nothing more than their components, unless the recipes are going to be rare, and then we can all stand around in front of the bank and wait for the recipes to drop off bandits so we can train something. there has been a planned buildup that lead to a semi-functional economy that can stand on it's own feet. There is no way to simply adjust for that. The game-plan for the next few months would need a comlete re-work. The argument is barely different than "I didn't notice what a good deal Apple stock was in the 90s (or 80s or 70s) so I should be allowed to buy stock at the original price now." Amazingly enough Stock traders start every day, and manage to overcome the advantage that those have, who started last year.
To reach me, email d20rpg@gmail.com
Edam
The "you guys are all losers for subbing early when the game sucked but when clever people like me come in and start subbing we want a wipe so losers who subbed early have no advantage" argument has been tried over and over.

Arguing about it is irrelevant its a commercial decision for the devs. A wipe will probably risk losing much of the original experienced player base in return for a few extra new "churn" players. If they feel they need a wipe to cash in on the the churn market they will. If they feel it is more important to keep the experienced players they will not wipe. It is entirely their decision they do not owe anyone anything.
 
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