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Dreaden
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Edam
Dreaden
Edam, don't put words in my mouth please. It's not really becoming to call myself a loser because in fact i have close to max exp. My concern is that bringing in a lot of new players is the only way to keep the boat afloat. GW has a huge PR problem and no wipe at OE is one of the major issues ALOT of mmorpg players have with PFO. I am sorry that you guys don't like talking about it, but to me it is worth discussing.

Not saying you said that but it is what is being said elsewhere. Firstly they say you must be an idiot to sub to a game they claim is effectively in beta and secondly also say once it is in OE why would you join if people that subbed early had a head start. The two views do not logically go together but often the same person states both.

My personal opinion (and only an opinion) is that the sort of player interested in a game where characters are meant to keep advancing over 10 years or more and total XP after the first year or two is not directly related to relative character power anyway are not going to be comparing XP and "levels". Conversely the sort of player who is a bit level obsessed is not that likely to hang around (there will obviously be exceptions) as they are coming from a traditional MMO perspective that does not fit this sort of game.

I suppose I am a bit biased as I play EVE. You get this sort of thing in EVE forums all the time. People complaining that they cannot "catchup" with vets that subbed 10 years ago, that is unfair that they cannot fly a battleship after 4 weeks or even a carrier and that they cannot compete with the vets no matter how long they play. This is of course nonsense as most "vets" that fly supers or titans will do it with an alt and their main probably spends most of their time in small subcaps a new player can qualify for after 3 to 6 months.

Significantly, historically the sort of major game changes that dump the original player base in favor of bringing in "new blood" have been disastrous. 4th Edition is a case in point. The existing playerbase said it was a bad idea and most said they are unlikely to continue to play, the devs thought they were bluffing (or maybe did not care about losing veteran players preferring the "new blood" ) and of course we all know what happened next.

Many of the day one players in my settlement have said they would simply go do something else if there was a wipe. Building up from scratch a 10 year plus character is fun once but not everyone will do it several times over.

The other issue is that even if you agreed to a wipe or some sort of XP catchup it will not stop the critics. The next thing they will complain about is how "unfair" DTs are or that it takes too long to get into T3 gear. Whiners will whine.

In the end though it is the DEVS decision and us discussing it is nearly pointless.
Doc
In the end though it is the DEVS decision and us discussing it is nearly pointless.

Is there any aspect of this game's development that is the community's decision?

No, not really, but we still discuss all kinds of things for which we have little impact.
Thod-Theodum
@Doc
Decision no

Input and influence a great YES

But I'm sure you are aware of that anyhow. Great work you do on the test server and I doubt you would do it thinking it doesn't change anything.
Thod/Theodum are the OOC/IC leaders of the Emerald Lodge - a neutral settlement in the center of the mal that tries to the first to explore the Emerald Spire - should that part of the game ever become available. We have a strong in game and out of game relationship with the Pathfinder Society.
We welcome both hard core players as well as casual players with or without tabletop experience. We have a strong group in Europe and are slowly expanding into the US. We are predominately PvE as our neutral political stance means that we tend to use PvP only in self-defence. We are not anti-PVP - but expect limited PvP opportunity with us.
Zycor
Insmile
Zycor
I'm gonna take a stab at making a Chaotic Evil // Lawful Good settlement. Right now I have the support of a few players from other settlements. They have been giving me advice and crafting help, I really appreciate it. Hopefully, we don't get pushed off the map because of our actions. If this doesn't pan out as planned I guess my goose is cooked.

If you want to help us the #1 thing we need help with is influence, go ahead and apply to Goblin Preservation Society in game. I'm working on a RP backstory for the settlement, our motives, philosophy, history. Believe it or not, I love reading Lore and RP stories.
Bringslite
@ heroguides

I'm not going to bother with the bulk of your post, but I do have a question for you. Maybe several.

"Here's a situation that arouse a few weeks ago during the Wrath Event. PFU was at an event and the Blood Sword guys were there as well. I felt discouraged attacking their group even though I really wanted to. I felt that way because I had the repercussions of attacking a group with a dev in it. What would happen? Would they suspend me, ban me? Am I breaking TOS rule #1 "Don't be a jerk?" I shouldn't have to think about it. I should be able to attack anyone. If you add the ability for players to do that in the game then get mad at them for doing it, then why is it implemented in the first place."

People attack the devs regular characters all the time. I can understand that you might not know that if you are fairly new. I am guessing that you are.

Just going to write this once. I hope that it sinks in. That you can understand it. I've wasted too much time already in these threads that you guys caused. Read carefully, absorb, understand.

1. You didn't break any rules.
2. You really weren't griefing anyone. It is the Dev's call.
3. The Devs didn't attack you or ask anyone to attack you.
4. It was pure sandbox.

Now, please read this and the questions. I really am very curious.

In other games like DFUW or EVE people run amok and kill who they like. Anyone that complains is swiftly condemned in general chat, right? You don't cry about being out numbered, ganked, lower skilled than your attackers, etc… The wolves have the upper hand in those games.

Why do you guys feel that your treatment here is so much different? It is the opposite of what you are used to, but it amounts to the same thing really.

I see this same stuff from players that were planning to be bandits in this game. They are really feeling like there is something wrong with others fighting back against them. Here when players have had enough of such activity, they get organized and go after whoever they feel wronged them, their company, or their settlement. If we can't catch them because they hide in a settlement, we decide whether it is worth going after the settlement to get vengeance. That is, in a nutshell or a simplified view, why most settlements don't want loose cannons in their midst.

About the Dev playing the game: I doubt it will change. If you have been crushed by that before, get over it or look for a better game. Vote with your subscription, yea or nay.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Ravenlute
The devs won't ban you for attacking them and in fact Lisa even mentioned how they were as skittish as any other player when transferring a bunch of stuff by mule. There are some basic non-griefing rules that need to be mentioned however, such as not attacking players in starter settlements or shrine camping. These are equivalent to safe zones that nearly every other PvP game has. Just ask what the PvP exceptions are and carry on. Outside of the very few rules that the devs have declared, various player groups have made their own but that's just politics and you'll have to navigate that like everyone else.

There's a reason there isn't a large CE group right now. It's because it would put a huge target on their back and they'd constantly be fighting with the community on what is considered griefing and what isn't.
Myl - Herald of Stone Bear Clan (Tavernhold)
"You can walk into Tavernhold but a horse will have to carry you out."
Zycor
smile
Bringslite
Well at least you are engaging in conversation. That is a good sign.

I suppose that mucking about killing inside an important event like a GENCON presentation might qualify you as a jerk. If you focus on brand new players (not saying you do) that would be a jerk move. Ignoring your leader's rules might also qualify or at least show that you need your own space. smile
Lots of players will consider this as grief action: "I will always complain about getting zerged. Because zerging sucks. A good fight is a good fight. An amazing fight is when you beat the zerg. I hate zerging. I hate large scale pvp. I'm the guy sitting at the edge of the battle killing the people limping away and stealing their stuff. I'm the guy you chase into a trap and die."

They have their opinions, but they aren't the same as more practical players or GW. I joined in looking for and fighting you one day. That was because you killed one of my newer players down there.

Living outside of a player settlement, you can train to rank 8. You do have to have a rep greater than -2500 or something like that. The few people that are here now understood or accepted that about 2 years+ ago. It is part of why most are here. If you are selective as a bandit/killer and don't focus on any one area, your bandit/killer town might survive. If you go after holdings or outposts and take them over, or kill more than a cpl people from the same settlement every week, you will probably get squashed. Change hunting grounds often.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
 
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