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Crazy idea

Dazyk of Phaeros
Duffy Swiftshadow
The tenants of this game are based around meaningful interaction. When you make constant conflict of which the results are only meaningful for the next 30secs or just on a personal level you reduce the game to RPG death match, king of the hill, and capture the flag. I play those games already don't need to make another killbox mmo trying to copy that.

Yes, but part of the problem is that the 'meaningfullness' is NOT readily apparent. Most average players playing this game do not, and will not, see the long-term meaning of meta or macro level decisions. Should we just ignore that market segment? If settlements are more easily attainable, and more easily lost, the game becomes more accessible.
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Yrme
vyal
Maybe you don't like that idea? Fair enough. Here's another one, that I've already flogged, but which no-one liked.. smile

In the event of a PvP death in a wilderness hex, there is no victimization of the loser. None. Zero. There is no item loss. There is no item damage. There is no husk, because you don't lose anything. There are zero negative consequences of any kind except one: At the moment of death, you are instantly teleported out of the hex, to the nearest out-of-hex shrine, with full hit points, and you cannot re-enter the hex you died in for many hours. (up to 24 hours, if you want hardcore)
Optionally, only permit such interactions in certain hexes which contain harvesting or loot bonuses only if you're in a feud, or based on settlement sphere of influence/geography.
It's victimization-free for all play styles, entirely full of consequences, and is so meaningful, it hurts. Again, such a thing would make PFO stand out as distinct, attractive, unique in the genre, has no impact to lore, and could have everyone participating, regardless of play style.

I didn't like it in the context of the other thread, but it's very interesting standing alone. I think it's so far outside of the norm, though, that it would freak out more MMO players than the keyword system does. Too often they seem to want the same game they're already playing, just different. It would require a massive redesign of the game - for example, with no item loss from PvP, what exactly do the crafters do? - and thus wouldn't be part of PFO.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Doc
Should we just ignore that market segment?

I already feel like the playerbase of this game has 2 or 3 incompatible player types that all compete in the forums to have PFO become their preferred version of the game. They're all looking at the previous two years of blog posts and coming up with something different. It's like the Protestant Reformation, one bible into many denominations that interpret the writings differently.

At this point, I feel like if GW just picked a segment and focused the shit out of making the game that segment wants they have a chance at a sustainable product. Otherwise, they're more likely to make a game that nobody really likes, and constantly points their fingers at the other players that they're "not playing the game correctly".
Dazyk of Phaeros
I can't say that I disagree, Doc.
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
vyal
Yrme
… I didn't like it in the context of the other thread, but it's very interesting standing alone. I think it's so far outside of the norm, though, that it would freak out more MMO players than the keyword system does. Too often they seem to want the same game they're already playing, just different. It would require a massive redesign of the game - for example, with no item loss from PvP, what exactly do the crafters do? - and thus wouldn't be part of PFO.
Creating economic drivers is easy.
A glib answer is: Crafters would be required to create the widgets that spawn the attack and defense portion of the events. All crafters.
And/or: item wear & tear is implemented, and so demand for new equipment is constant for all players, even if they don't die, simply by playing the game. (item repair, too, is an option)

True, both have consequences, but are easily addressed as has been demonstrated in many other games in the genre. Economic issues are not typically what drive players away from a game. Sometimes they are, but less often than meaningless player conflict, historically.

As far as a massive redesign, both ideas that I outlined are possible in PFO today. Escalations, hex barriers and shrines are the only features required for either idea, and they all already exist. Implementation would involve utilizing what is already in place.
Duffy Swiftshadow
Dazyk of Phaeros
Duffy Swiftshadow
The tenants of this game are based around meaningful interaction. When you make constant conflict of which the results are only meaningful for the next 30secs or just on a personal level you reduce the game to RPG death match, king of the hill, and capture the flag. I play those games already don't need to make another killbox mmo trying to copy that.

Yes, but part of the problem is that the 'meaningfullness' is NOT readily apparent. Most average players playing this game do not, and will not, see the long-term meaning of meta or macro level decisions. Should we just ignore that market segment? If settlements are more easily attainable, and more easily lost, the game becomes more accessible.

Of course you should ignore that market segment, they aren't making the game for them. Every game ignores some market segment. You can't make every single game appeal to every single person, nor should you try. This game has it's directive and doing things to make it just like some other game are only going to hurt it. It needs to cut out it's own niche with it's own intentions. Trying to grab every single market type or cater to all will not work and duplicating something someone has already done is just as silly.

You can't win em all.
Edam
Doc
It's like the Protestant Reformation, one bible into many denominations that interpret the writings differently.

To be fair that was sort of the point of the Reformation. Bible to the masses and let the common man read and interpret for himself with no canonical interpretations forced on you from above. The rise of fundamentalism is in a sense very anti-protestant/anti-reformation but lets not get into that here.

Two slightly more on-topic points:

- many of the outside criticism does come from people that just want a new shinier version of the games they are already used to - and like all people attracted by shiney things their attention span is limited

- in game there are a few individuals that want the game to transform into a version of sims or a PvP fest come Tribes/Counterstrike capture the flag game in a fantasy setting and there are people expecting TT on a computer but I believe those extreme positions are actually a minority
Dazyk of Phaeros
double
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Dazyk of Phaeros
Duffy Swiftshadow
Of course you should ignore that market segment, they aren't making the game for them…
I'm not talking about appealing to ALL the markets, everywhere. I am talking about a few simple changes that would still appeal to the main design goals of this game.
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

Find your hidden strength, join the Frozen Fingers today!
Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Duffy Swiftshadow
Except those changes for 'All War, All the time' alienates the market they already caught and we're preaching too, mainly people like me. If they go down the road of loosening or removing every restriction and meaningful interaction that this turns this into a free for all constant warzone game and I'm leaving. That's not a threat or a jab at design, I just don't want to play that sort of game in an MMO setting anymore. It does not appeal to me at all.

If conflict is so common and constant it would lose all meaning. You are supposed to care that you lost, if you didn't then it's meaningless which is the opposite of what they want. They do not want this to be login and deathmatch/capture the hill until I log off. Yes, conflict should be able to happen everyday, but the scale and result of said conflict needs to be more and more costly both for the attacker and the defender.

If something happens everyday then who cares that it happened? It's just another Tuesday. Ideally destruction or conflict around 'permanent' structures should be a drawn out process. It shouldn't be a common every night occurrence, it should be rare and require dedicate effort. The easier something is to replace the easier it should be to destory. The final stroke of ending a settlement should be a huge event that is not forgotten quickly nor occurs regularly. If it happens every single day then who cares that it happened? Why bother?
 
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