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Dev Blog: Combat Updates for Early Enrollment v10.1

tribuzio
Kero
Hmm, apparently not all roles were screwed equally here. From the point of view of a longbow archer, EE 10.1a as described and from the numbers in the spread sheet is a pretty bad blow that has me seriously considering to retire my archer character for the time being.

The most crippling effect is the complete removal of any decent high-damage alpha strike. Bow users currently face one major predicament: they are left stationary whenever they attack for the duration of their attack. And their attacks fail if the target has left the range by the end of the attack duration. So any seriously damaged opponent basically just has to step backwards or run away: I can then either give chase (but never attack) or attack (and usually have it fail due to my opponent having left range by the time the attack finished) and be left hopelessly far behind.

So, I really, really need the ability to do a lot of damage with a single attack, for a chance to actually overwhelm my opponent (possibly using several archers to coordinate a volley). Getting two attacks that do half the damage for half the stamina cost doesn't help me at all: either the total damage is too low to matter anyway, or the total damage would have been high enough but the second attack never hits because the target can easily evade away after noticing the first hit, while my two attacks actually root me in place even longer than a single attack would.

I get the idea of wanting to introduce more attack combos. But really, I'm quite unimpressed with what archers actually got in this proposal: namely we now get to have/apply the not very useful aware and revealed states more often, that's pretty much it. And if we apply them in the correct order, we might actually get some of the effects on our second or third attack back, that our attacks had pre-EE10.1a anyway. That is, of course, if our target is still in range for the second and third attack… Sure, theoretically, I can now apply them more often but again my targets are not going to stay in range if they notice a significant amount of damage coming their way, so that doesn't help to compensate the loss of my high damage attacks in reality.

Maybe it would be a good compromise to leave some of the attacks as high-damage/high-stamina alpha strikes, like say Overdraw and Vital Strike and modify the rest as planned. That would actually allow for two playstyles for the archer to coexist: one that rarely fires fairly powerful attacks and one that spams a succession of faster, less damaging attacks that feed of each others effects.

This. And remember that you shouldn't balance stuff only for PvP. Archery was heavily weakened for PvE too. Being able to do more attack isn't useful if most of the time you don't do enough damage with a single strike to bypass the the target armor. It is not "less damage on a hit but more DPS", it is "less DPS against most targets".

Same thing for several other attacks. Rank 4 in whirwind, now I can't even kill most white NPC in one strike and the second is far away.
Archer attacks? Overdraw 4 or penetrating strike 4, it don't kill withe mobs in one shot, so you need to make a second attack. I can have more theoretical DPS, but most are wasted.
What I could kill with 2 shots (most yellow) now require 3 or even 4.
And several of the effects don't work on NPCs so they are wasted.

Parting shot? Reduced the range so by the time I can use it some other NPC has rooted me in place and it fail most of the time. Thankfully evasion still work.

Edam
There are a few 20m buff/debuffs that do not use heavy melee attack bonus. Things like Rush and Chase I think.

Of course logically, Trophy Charm expendables can be spammed (unlike wizard cleric that are once per combat) so you do not want a batch of them to be high powered range attacks.

Really? I just tried to use augmentation while being pummeled to death by 2 medium elementals (and they do more damage now or my armor protect less). I was killed, had the time to return from Pharasma shrine to the location of the elementals, kill one and retreat and finally Augmentation stopped to be grayed out.

So it staid "used" the time of a fight and a half.

- * -

Another thing: some of us are forced to play solo a lot. While it is not a supported feature, constantly reducing the ability to do that even against weak opponents is extremely frustrating.
What is the goal? to reduce the guy that play off hours to crafting only?
Tyncale
As far as PVE and solotactics are concerned these changes took all the fun out for me.

I used a large part of my bow attacks, depending on what I was fighting.

Overdraw only for openings (due to the long attacktime) and picking of low levels with one-shotting. And not even always for openings either: if I did not need the distressed to put slow on a heavy hitter for some kiting I would often use penetrating strike as an openener too.

Parting Shot and Followthrough for putting slow on a mob, for instance for kiting a Large Elemental or Mordent or Duergar. Vital Strike as hard hitting second attack and finisher. Half draw I used constantly to finish off when a mob had a sliver of health left since it hardly used Stamina. Parting shot also for evade off course. Now I can't even kill a single Large Elemental reliably anymore. No fun.

The same goes for my Longsword attacks that I used in conjunction with my Bow. With the damage nerf to whirlwind that is now on a cooldown I am pretty much back to "kill one and leash" tactics again. Instead of having to economize your Stamina, you now have to wait untill your cooldown has expired: DPS hugely diminished no matter what your stamina looks like.

I really liked how you had to factor in the large stamina cost of Whirlwind so that you could use it to most effect. Not anymore.

That blue bar is completely useless now, might as well take it out. It's all about spamming and waiting for cooldowns to expire now. Combat is less fun now, I am less powerfull, I have to resort to the old cheesy "run and leash" tactics again and I am certainly not using a more interesting line-up of attacks either.

Disclaimer: this is from a PvE perspective, and some solo tactics.

I guess I will concentrate a bit more on building and crafting for now, untill GW comes to their senses again.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Edam
Tyncale
As far as PVE and solotactics are concerned these changes took all the fun out for me.

I used a large part of my bow attacks, depending on what I was fighting.

Overdraw only for openings (due to the long attacktime) and picking of low levels with one-shotting. And not even always for openings either: if I did not need the distressed to put slow on a heavy hitter for some kiting I would often use penetrating strike as an openener too.

Parting Shot and Followthrough for putting slow on a mob, for instance for kiting a Large Elemental or Mordent or Duergar. Vital Strike as hard hitting second attack and finisher. Half draw I used constantly to finish off when a mob had a sliver of health left since it hardly used Stamina. Parting shot also for evade off course. Now I can't even kill a single Large Elemental reliably anymore. No fun.

The same goes for my Longsword attacks that I used in conjunction with my Bow. With the damage nerf to whirlwind that is now on a cooldown I am pretty much back to "kill one and leash" tactics again. Instead of having to economize your Stamina, you now have to wait untill your cooldown has expired: DPS hugely diminished no matter what your stamina looks like.

I really liked how you had to factor in the large stamina cost of Whirlwind so that you could use it to most effect. Not anymore.

That blue bar is completely useless now, might as well take it out. It's all about spamming and waiting for cooldowns to expire now. Combat is less fun now, I am less powerfull, I have to resort to the old cheesy "run and leash" tactics again and I am certainly not using a more interesting line-up of attacks either.

Disclaimer: this is from a PvE perspective, and some solo tactics.

I guess I will concentrate a bit more on building and crafting for now, untill GW comes to their senses again.

I am not really in game this week so have not done much testing. One thing I did notice I can now one shot runts with holylight and even leave louts with just a tiny sliver of health. The once per combat and chewing of power stops you spamming it though.
Tyncale
Yes, the moment I heard you mention that in General Chat, I put up the two copies I have of that Expendable on the Callambea AH. Might as well earn some silver before they nerf it again. smile
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Tyncale
Btw, spamming Vital Strike is my new "tactic" for purple mobs instead of kiting them. Combined with Staggering Critical this is a useful combo. Vital Strike, Vital Strike, Vital Strike, Evasion(parting shot takes too long), Vital Strike Vital Strike, dead. Leash the rest, rinse and repeat.
Regalo Harnoncourt, Leader of the River Kingdoms Trading Company, High Council of Callambea.
This is the character that I am playing almost 100% of the time. (Tyncale is my Sage/Mage)
Bringslite
Where are the attack combos that every weapon was supposed to offer now? Surely they aren't in a 5 action set up?

Are they? That seems… impractical.
Virtute et Armis
-Unknown
Dazyk of Phaeros
Some of the combos are primary to primary, so look there too BL. I've only looked at focus, and there are several there.
Dazyk Half-Elven, Elder of the Frozen Fingers, the shock- troops of Phaeros. If you are a fighter, cleric, or rogue, and enjoy battle, be it PVP or PVE, we are the company for you! We welcome role-players, casual gamers, and hardcore players alike.

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Dazyk's PFO Resources Folder
Decius
Some of them can lead into 5 or 6 long combos. Most that I've found are 2-4.

Most can be executed by very simple heuristic based only on what attacks are illuminated.
Stephen Cheney
Here are the GraphViz flowcharts I made for the combos. They're very basic in appearance (and I had to drop apostrophes and hyphens and use underscores to get the program to take the names), so we may eventually put out prettier versions. But it seemed mean to hang onto a visual guide to combos that everyone so clearly desires smile .


Explanation:

The graphs are essentially showing which effects now trigger something on an attack, and which attacks cause effects that could potentially trigger something else (I left off effects that aren't used as triggers; this isn't supposed to be a complete visual summary of the attacks, but just a guide to how to combo them).

The focus, wand, and staff pages are a little gigantic because they show everything possible, even though due to keyword matching you'll actually want to limit yourself to 1/3 or 1/4 of the list. Similarly, the physical weapons with divine attacks include those as well, though you probably won't wind up mixing them by Tier 3. But you CAN combine them if you're okay with some being down a couple of keywords, so I opted to include them all in the graphics.

Key:
* Box: Primary Attacks
* Circle: Secondary Attacks
* Triangle: States
* Pentagon: Target effects (always Debuffs)
* Hexagon: Self effects (usually Buffs, but also includes Open)
Rynnik
Stephen Cheney
Here are the GraphViz flowcharts I made for the combos. They're very basic in appearance (and I had to drop apostrophes and hyphens and use underscores to get the program to take the names), so we may eventually put out prettier versions. But it seemed mean to hang onto a visual guide to combos that everyone so clearly desires smile .
Explanation:

The graphs are essentially showing which effects now trigger something on an attack, and which attacks cause effects that could potentially trigger something else (I left off effects that aren't used as triggers; this isn't supposed to be a complete visual summary of the attacks, but just a guide to how to combo them).

The focus, wand, and staff pages are a little gigantic because they show everything possible, even though due to keyword matching you'll actually want to limit yourself to 1/3 or 1/4 of the list. Similarly, the physical weapons with divine attacks include those as well, though you probably won't wind up mixing them by Tier 3. But you CAN combine them if you're okay with some being down a couple of keywords, so I opted to include them all in the graphics.

Key:
* Box: Primary Attacks
* Circle: Secondary Attacks
* Triangle: States
* Pentagon: Target effects (always Debuffs)
* Hexagon: Self effects (usually Buffs, but also includes Open)
How massive of a cost to bribe you for a planned version of that chart for the crossbows awaiting animation for implementation?

smilesmilesmile
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