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Dev Blog: Combat Updates for Early Enrollment v10.1

Rynnik
Nihimon
Rynnik
Meaningful choices.

So, you disagree with Q when he says "Wizards need more ways to stay out of harms way"?
I do absolutely.

It just speaks to my preference for class diversity.

Wizards have so many awesome ways to lock people down I would rather see there self peal rely on counter mobility rather then their own mobility. Make Wizards a center piece of combat with big effects over big areas, but minimum amount of ability to rapidly shift position. They can stun melee dives and you will see outplays that way on the people coming after them.

I'd rather see rogues move the way of the self pealing damage (both at range or melee depending on build) with more focus on escape, evades, stealth etc to make them exciting and interesting to play.

Mobile wizards are perfectly reasonable preference as well but not the way I would go with it and I hope Evade stays rogue and other classes don't just get carbon copies of their movement abilities.

Makes wizard/rogue multi-classes a really interesting idea as well while given each pure type a cool niche.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Nihimon
So, maybe a point-blank AoE Knockback for Wizards? Is that the kind of "counter mobility" you're talking about?
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Rynnik
Nihimon
So, maybe a point-blank AoE Knockback for Wizards? Is that the kind of "counter mobility" you're talking about?
Yah, stuff of that ilk I guess. I was mostly thinking of the existing the plethora of stuns, roots, knockdowns etc that wizards have access to, but an AoE knockback is a cool idea (with a preference for small magnitude with low cooldown).
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Nihimon
I worry a lot about Wizards falling into a "stun-lock" niche… I wish I were clever enough to propose a solution.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Rynnik
Nihimon
I worry a lot about Wizards falling into a "stun-lock" niche… I wish I were clever enough to propose a solution.
That is sort of where I think they should belong. smile
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Nihimon
Being stun-locked isn't fun. Mind Blank and Freedom will eventually kick in, but I worry about targets being unable to actively fight. I also worry about it devolving into a situation where the victor is whoever gets the first stun, and is thus able to keep the stun-lock in place.
Nihimon murmurs in sheer ecstasy as the magic courses through his veins
Rynnik
Nihimon
Being stun-locked isn't fun. Mind Blank and Freedom will eventually kick in, but I worry about targets being unable to actively fight. I also worry about it devolving into a situation where the victor is whoever gets the first stun, and is thus able to keep the stun-lock in place.
Definitely a massive thing to watch in terms of the game long term.

Right now, our environment, I think it is a decent spot for wizards.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Elmin Sterro
Rynnik
Nihimon
Rynnik
Meaningful choices.

So, you disagree with Q when he says "Wizards need more ways to stay out of harms way"?
I do absolutely.

It just speaks to my preference for class diversity.

Wizards have so many awesome ways to lock people down I would rather see there self peal rely on counter mobility rather then their own mobility. Make Wizards a center piece of combat with big effects over big areas, but minimum amount of ability to rapidly shift position. They can stun melee dives and you will see outplays that way on the people coming after them.

I'd rather see rogues move the way of the self pealing damage (both at range or melee depending on build) with more focus on escape, evades, stealth etc to make them exciting and interesting to play.

Mobile wizards are perfectly reasonable preference as well but not the way I would go with it and I hope Evade stays rogue and other classes don't just get carbon copies of their movement abilities.

Makes wizard/rogue multi-classes a really interesting idea as well while given each pure type a cool niche.

I disagree about Wizard evasiveness for two reasons.

1: From a general design perspective, as resistance to physical attacks decreases evasiveness should increase to compensate. As the only combat class that wears cloth armor, Wizards should absolutely have evasive abilities.

2: From the source material, Wizards have by far the most evasive abilities. From just the core book alone: Expeditious Retreat, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Blur, Displacement, Blink, Dimension Door, Greater Invisibility, Mislead, Ethereal Jaunt, and Time Stop. Many of these are defining abilities for the class, it would be a shame if they were never given an analog in PFO.

I think that both Rogues and Wizards should have a plethora of evades and damage mitigation abilities, with some key differences. Rogue evades should be easy to activate and continually available (i.e. extra effects on attack and utilities), Wizard evades should be powerful but costly and temporary (i.e. spells and utilities with long cool downs).

That being said, if the game's design does veer towards Wizards being immobile masters of crowd control, I can adapt to that. It would be interesting to see how an larger number or increased strength of knockbacks and immobilizes on spells/cantrips would affect combat dynamics. I think we probably have enough stuns at this point, although some of those will convert into other effects as tech becomes available.

The issue does not feel like a priority after the 10.1 patch, probably because damage burst is much lower and I more frequently have time to react between starting to take damage and waking up at the shrine.
Doc
Rynnik
Nihimon
So, maybe a point-blank AoE Knockback for Wizards? Is that the kind of "counter mobility" you're talking about?
Yah, stuff of that ilk I guess. I was mostly thinking of the existing the plethora of stuns, roots, knockdowns etc that wizards have access to, but an AoE knockback is a cool idea (with a preference for small magnitude with low cooldown).

Just make Hydraulic Push burst to self and problem solved.
Edam
Doc
Rynnik
Nihimon
So, maybe a point-blank AoE Knockback for Wizards? Is that the kind of "counter mobility" you're talking about?
Yah, stuff of that ilk I guess. I was mostly thinking of the existing the plethora of stuns, roots, knockdowns etc that wizards have access to, but an AoE knockback is a cool idea (with a preference for small magnitude with low cooldown).

Just make Hydraulic Push burst to self and problem solved.

That would be a bit OP for a level 1 expendable.

.. a T2 "Mass Hydraulic Push" as a level 4/5 expendable might be worth a look though.
 
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