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Nerf Nakeds

Memory-High Priest of Desna
+1 yea. nakedfolks shouldn't be able to do anything. it's a similar argument to the "settlements without holdings shouldn't be able to do anything" discussion. if you're naked you have no risks, thus, no rewards.
Adventure Time with the High Priest of Desna, begins Tuesday 08/18 at 6:00pm EST (10:00 server time) at the Thornkeep Auction house. All new players welcome!

Official titles and Nicknames:
Spherewalker of Indor-Mardil, High Priest of Desna, Dreaden-appointed Forum Troll Extraordinaire, The Southern Speedster, Slinger of Stars, Newbie-Bear, Gutter of Golgothans, King of Kiters, Johnny Ustalavian-Seed, and Peaches.
Doc
I'm guessing that at some point the "injury/maimed" system should supposedly help? Some kind of longterm debuff?

Currently, the underlying issue is that once people lose their armor, the most costly equipment they'll own, they really don't have much less to lose or risk, so why no just keep running in.

If there was a risk to running into a big fight naked, such that maybe you die a lot of times and incur a longterm debuff from an injury (more deaths = more likely to be injured?) I think some people might think twice about it.

For example, in the fight a couple days ago, in the first outpost capture I don't recall seeing many nakeds at all. People could have just showed up initially to the fight and blocked capture that way like they are now, but they didn't, maybe because they wanted to fight, or thought they could win. But I didn't see many people running into the outpost to try to block capture either. They had something to lose of personal value still, their gear.

If there is no penalty to defending naked, of course folks will do it. We'll probably optimize some tactics to try to overcome it, but it's just soooo cheesy. If I wanted to kill nakeds for an hour I'd just go spawn camp Thornkeep.
Rynnik
Doc
I'm guessing that at some point the "injury/maimed" system should supposedly help? Some kind of longterm debuff?

Currently, the underlying issue is that once people lose their armor, the most costly equipment they'll own, they really don't have much less to lose or risk, so why no just keep running in.

If there was a risk to running into a big fight naked, such that maybe you die a lot of times and incur a longterm debuff from an injury (more deaths = more likely to be injured?) I think some people might think twice about it.

For example, in the fight a couple days ago, in the first outpost capture I don't recall seeing many nakeds at all. People could have just showed up initially to the fight and blocked capture that way like they are now, but they didn't, maybe because they wanted to fight, or thought they could win. But I didn't see many people running into the outpost to try to block capture either. They had something to lose of personal value still, their gear.

If there is no penalty to defending naked, of course folks will do it. We'll probably optimize some tactics to try to overcome it, but it's just soooo cheesy. If I wanted to kill nakeds for an hour I'd just go spawn camp Thornkeep.
More then just the risk factor and the opportunity cost of regearing, they are DAMN effective. If you have to play careful to make sure a heavy armour melee doesn't get on top of you, you have to play just as carefully to make sure a naked melee doesn't get on you because they hit just as hard! It takes a greater then zero amount of time to target and kill one so you can't ignore them as they retain the capacity of tearing your face off and you have to spend that time clearing them out (in an environment with less burst as well!). Heals are the exact same but reverse and they are helped even more by their lack of EPRO when ungeared exacerbating that use case of the issue!

I think for me that is the biggest issue.

I would be fine with having to clear the naked zerg off capture points (which is dumb as well but I get it at least) but having to actually fight nakeds because they will solo you out if you ignore them and follow the focus battle against the opponent main force is what really bothers me. Their lack of risk means they bypass tactical consideration, their capacity means they can't be ignored by back line squishies, and you end up with naked damage sponges and backline gankers and naked healers doing all the actual hard work for a force.

Un-fun from my perspective.

Agreed about the shrine stuff as well, maybe active PvP window will turn off that hexs respawns as a work around soon or something, but please have that conversation in another thread ( https://goblinworks.com/forum/topic/3598/ ).
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Yrme
I'm not sure what people were seeing from the other side. We were targeting and quickly killing unarmored characters that still had weapons. We were mostly ignoring the unarmored/unarmed T1s that were trying to score points, but if there was no better target we'd kill them, too.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Rynnik
Yrme
I'm not sure what people were seeing from the other side. We were targeting and quickly killing unarmored characters that still had weapons. We were mostly ignoring the unarmored/unarmed T1s that were trying to score points, but if there was no better target we'd kill them, too.
So imagine being the winning outnumbered attacker in that situation with less people, more nakeds to deal with, and being the ones that actually had to have the point clear to get points.

???

I am not sure what seeing specific parts of the problem last night has to do with the discussion on fixing the problem, or are you nudging at their not really being a problem from your view?
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Rynnik
GW,

'Large scale' pvp right now is being won by people without armour. Please add a serious decrease in combat effective for those people out of armour.

-1 …. How about "No"

Players that are naked, already have a serious decrease in combat effectiveness: No armor based key words, no HP or resistance bonuses, they should be squishy as half melted ice cream. Even characters in T1 +0 armor are squishy vs. T2 +3 weapons, what's it take about 3 hits?
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Yrme
Rynnik
I am not sure what seeing specific parts of the problem last night has to do with the discussion on fixing the problem, or are you nudging at their not really being a problem from your view?

???

Why would GW want to decide something was a problem with only hearing one side? (Tho I think that's what they did with FF AoE.)

I'm merely stating what I saw from my vantage in case it provides a slightly more complete record. We were targeting naked and armed characters - we recognized them as threats. It took a few shots, but they went down faster than a T2 armored character certainly. They'd come back and we'd send them back to Pharasma. Eventually they came back without weapons and then we mostly ignored them because they weren't gaining enough points to threaten capture.

Edit to add: a question for GW though - if the attackers could clear the guards, what's y'all's view on a capture using a gross number of gear-less characters? Do you see a couple dozen bare characters holding a tower as a social victory, or a travesty of the game rules? Should bare characters gain no capture points?
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Doc
Players that are naked, already have a serious decrease in combat effectiveness: No armor based key words, no HP or resistance bonuses, they should be squishy as half melted ice cream. Even characters in T1 +0 armor are squishy vs. T2 +3 weapons, what's it take about 3 hits?

There is always the option of playing the game and seeing for yourself.
Doc
Why would GW want to decide something was a problem with only hearing one side? (Tho I think that's what they did with FF AoE.)

I've sent GW copious amounts of video of the holding fights, so they can see for themselves.
Rynnik
Yrme
Rynnik
I am not sure what seeing specific parts of the problem last night has to do with the discussion on fixing the problem, or are you nudging at their not really being a problem from your view?

???

Why would GW want to decide something was a problem with only hearing one side? (Tho I think that's what they did with FF AoE.)

I'm merely stating what I saw from my vantage in case it provides a slightly more complete record. We were targeting naked and armed characters - we recognized them as threats. It took a few shots, but they went down faster than a T2 armored character certainly. They'd come back and we'd send them back to Pharasma. Eventually they came back without weapons and then we mostly ignored them because they weren't gaining enough points to threaten capture.
To me this issue had NOTHING to do with 'sides'. It is about making the game better.

Oh-well live and learn I guess.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
 
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