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Nerf Nakeds

Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Doc
Players that are naked, already have a serious decrease in combat effectiveness: No armor based key words, no HP or resistance bonuses, they should be squishy as half melted ice cream. Even characters in T1 +0 armor are squishy vs. T2 +3 weapons, what's it take about 3 hits?

There is always the option of playing the game and seeing for yourself.

I do and I have. Are you saying there is no advantage to wearing armor? Wow, so many of us have been duped into thinking all of those features, xp costs, silver costs and gear slotting was actually useful.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Smitty
What he is saying is being able to have a squad of 5-6 T2 folks that don’t wear any armor in battle (each take (1v1) 6-7 hits to kill) should be easier to kill.

I know a ton of people want monk to be a thing but these aren’t monks.. just naked folks using T2 weapons and offensive capabilities, so ignoring them is not really an option. It is not like they are strapping on +0 T1 armors.

That is why I said quick fix = + ___ base damage if you choose to wear nothing when you run into battle. Regardless of HP or training you should die in no more than 3 hits to anyone that attacks you even lowered tiered folks if you have decided to wear nothing in a fight.
Tyv Blodvaerd of Aragon
Smitty
What he is saying is being able to have a squad of 5-6 T2 folks that don’t wear any armor in battle (each take (1v1) 6-7 hits to kill) should be easier to kill.

I know a ton of people want monk to be a thing but these aren’t monks.. just naked folks using T2 weapons and offensive capabilities, so ignoring them is not really an option. It is not like they are strapping on +0 T1 armors.

That is why I said quick fix = + ___ base damage if you choose to wear nothing when you run into battle. Regardless of HP or training you should die in no more than 3 hits to anyone that attacks you even lowered tiered folks if you have decided to wear nothing in a fight.
But wouldn't you run into a problem of reducing the combat effectiveness of anyone wearing armor less than their tier, because they can't afford a new set?

How will the system differentiate between T1 vs. Naked; T2 vs T1 or Naked; T3 vs T2, T1 or Naked?

This might further encourage shrine camping to ensure that defenders are rendered naked, or attackers for that matter.
Aragon (CN) a settlement founded on the principles of the River Freedoms: Say What You Will; Oath Breakers Die; Walk Any Road, Float Any River; Courts are for Kings; Slavery is an Abomination; Have What You Hold.

Settlement Focus: Fighter and Rogue Training
Game Play: Escalations / Refining / Crafting / Defensive PVP
Decius
The reduction in base defense, in hit points, in effect protection, recovery, and other per-keyword effects is sufficient disincentive to fight without armor.

Fighting with no armor and T2 weapons leads to losing T2 weapons at a much faster rate.
Rynnik
My easiest brain stormed solution be to avoid going the route of 'additional damage' as Smitty is advocating.

I would rather see a debuff if you don't have an item in your armour slot that give you -50% to epow, attack roll, and damage or something along those lines. Adjust severity to achieve desired result.

Any piece of armour from T1+0 to T3+3 removes that debuff completely.

Decius
The reduction in base defense, in hit points, in effect protection, recovery, and other per-keyword effects is sufficient disincentive to fight without armor.
Evidently not according to recent PvP engagements or statements like this:
Cheatle for TEO
HOLD UP

No gear? Just because I look naked doesn't mean I have no gear.

A few people came back into the fight with implements/Foci/Gloves to heal, but without armor since it takes 4x longer to make then implements/weapons/wands/staves/foci.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
vyal
Smitty
… That is why I said quick fix = + ___ base damage if you choose to wear nothing when you run into battle. …
Only one point to add, Smitty. For new players who, through normal new player game-play, break their gear and are naked, this would be an entirely negative experience. (either via PvE or PvP)

And yes, I'm aware the glib/hubris answer to that issue is: "L2P" or "we don't want them here, if they're that dumb" , but a consistently negative new player experience doesn't retain subscribers. This particular solution could amplify the potential for a negative new player experience in this one specific way.
That's my only comment on this potential solution.
Yrme
Decius
The reduction in base defense, in hit points, in effect protection, recovery, and other per-keyword effects is sufficient disincentive to fight without armor.

I think that's likely generally the case. I haven't seen anyone proposing a no-armor build for 1v1 PvP. I haven't seen anyone fighting PvE in no armor.

I think the tower wars holding conflict is a special case, with only a very short run from the shrine back to the target. The logical extension of the current rules would be that the attackers would always need more raw bodies than the defenders to take a outpost. I'm not sure bare characters need to be considered in that count. Anyone that still has gear is still a threat, and thus should almost certainly count to the tally.
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
Rynnik
vyal
Smitty
… That is why I said quick fix = + ___ base damage if you choose to wear nothing when you run into battle. …
Only one point to add, Smitty. For new players who, through normal new player game-play, break their gear and are naked, this would be an entirely negative experience. (either via PvE or PvP)

And yes, I'm aware the glib/hubris answer to that issue is: "L2P" or "we don't want them here, if they're that dumb" , but a consistently negative new player experience doesn't retain subscribers. This particular solution could amplify the potential for a negative new player experience in this one specific way.
That's my only comment on this potential solution.
It also sucks when you get hell camped by thornguards at -2500 during a respawn cycle in a settlement you blundered into. smile

That is all part of why the survivability of nakeds seems fine overall - they just should not be to do as much to harm other players but be as safe as they are now as they try and travel back to a bank to regear.
Not a member, representative, or supporter of Brighthaven Alliance.
Smitty
in response to the new players..

new folks start with peasant clothes, so they wear things. they also start with 20 durability armors in the tutorial.

If a new player breaks his armor .. ( wouldn't his weapon be broken as well ?) if he is having a hard time affording replacements, that is on us for charging too much for new stuff and well he should be complaining about that not dying..

So not going to say learn to play.. but with no weapon or armor, folks should not go out hunting, nor should they be able to do so effectively..
I see the other side as well ..

i may take off my robes because they are expensive, i can use my staff. slot mage resistance and the cleric buff for physical armor( utility version) and alternate them and get 12 physical resistance and energy resistance up all the time

that is an option and a choice i could make, and i would not be happy to have my other cantirps and abilities reduced because i wanted to give that a try for a while..


Rynnik stop participating in organized PvP and losing so much rep!!! you should be a bandit that way it takes weeks to find people and your rep doesn't suffer!!
*** since you guys don't like base damage increase on attacks, how about -20 to base defense?

they both would do the same thing sort of.. but i still contend if you stand around nude in a fight you should expect to be dead and it shouldn't take 5+ hits to do it.
Yrme
Smitty
since you guys don't like base damage increase on attacks, how about -20 to base defense?

they both would do the same thing sort of.. but i still contend if you stand around nude in a fight you should expect to be dead and it shouldn't take 5+ hits to do it.

I'm not sure they do the same thing. A character with a T2 weapon is already roughly +100 to hit (middle D200 roll) against an unarmored target. Making him +120 to hit doesn't change much; the attack still does max damage, right? There might be more critical damage, if the attacker has critical reactives slotted.

(minor edits)
At some point, crowdforging suggestions seem to be like fan fiction. Some good, some bad, some repetitious and predictable. But maybe there are some gems out there.
 
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